Shoot to slide lock or count rounds?

This is a discussion on Shoot to slide lock or count rounds? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 357and40 I have talked about this with my instructor. We both tend to count rounds while at the range but he assures ...

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Thread: Shoot to slide lock or count rounds?

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    I have talked about this with my instructor. We both tend to count rounds while at the range but he assures me that when under stress there are VERY

    few people that can really maintain a round count that is remotely accurate.
    It will never hurt to train it but I will take his word for it that I will not be able to remember under the

    stress of actual engagement.

    By the way... Thanks for posting the original question. It is a good topic.
    thank you 357/40---that is the point of my thread. --->there are very few, anyone here among them or have seen someone whose ability seems to encompass this skill?


    again-reference to IDPA because real world stats regarding incoming vs outgoing are not printed out for easy looking at. and when there is incoming fire you are doing everything right or chances are that you will not be around later to learn from the experience. the 'counting' is not taking away anything from your conscious activities--which should be minimal as your training is what will more so determine your survival. remember--very few rise to the occasion--tne many default to their training.

    the counting is but another tool in your toolbox of skills. granted it is not common to find that skill in others, yet i have meet 2 others that have it.
    looking for more am i

    and as for trying to count rounds while being shot at = your dead shoot them and get away never stand and fight
    nothing in this conversation is about 'trying'. i would recommend getting well grounded with the basics before trying anything....else.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
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  3. #17
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    I think it's important to train w/o fully loaded mags (loaded to a random capacity), this way you don't become dependent on counting for a reload, you are forced to observe the condition of the gun and take appropriate action whether it be clearing a malfunction or reloading. After a while it all becomes second nature and you can feel when the gun is at lock back vs slide forward.
    Yankeejib likes this.
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  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    I think it's important to train w/o fully loaded mags (loaded to a random capacity), this way you don't become dependent on counting for a reload, you are forced to observe the condition of the gun and take appropriate action whether it be clearing a malfunction or reloading. After a while it all becomes second nature and you can feel when the gun is at lock back vs slide forward.
    very good training exercise as it will brake a person of pulling the trigger a second time after the 1st time failed. it may also allow them to 'feel' the difference in recoil when he slide stays back and this again, decreases the guns down-time.

    but as always--it will be pointed out that in combat ( sigh) you will not notice all the various little things happening what for the BIG PICTURE.
    for the most with little or no training, this has truth
    for those who have trained seriously, its truth is proportionally less
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Not only do I think counting rounds in combat is difficult - you may not even notice slide-lock. It's not uncommon for folks under stress to keep trying to work the trigger on a pistol that is at slide lock. Counting rounds? If you can do it when in combat - you're better than me.
    Bark'n and garyacman like this.
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  6. #20
    Member Array jarhead74's Avatar
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    I shoot to slide lock. Can't count to 17!
    "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem."
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Never had to do it under stress, but I would imagine, for me it would be slide lock, or click depending on what platform I'm carrying at that time.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    To much of a fine motor skill to count on. Pun Intended...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    Well, usually when I shoot, I count rounds. However, when I was overseas, I found that it didn't happen. There was too much other "stuff" going on that was taking up my mental capacity. So I just reloaded whenever I got a chance, with fresh mags (and during down time would consolidated used mags making them fresh again).

    Although, I think really, the lower your ammo capacity is, the easier it is to count, and the more important that it is too count. So for instance, it is more important to count on a 5 shot revolver, than a 30 round rifle, because the odds of needing a reload from the 5 shot capacity is greater, and with the bigger capacity, if you are in doubt and have a reload, then you should.
    Pretty much my sentiments exactly. In the middle of a gun fight, or any other fight for your life, I believe it is just not possible to keep track of your rounds.

    As far as I'm concerned, if you're attempting to count your rounds in the middle of a gun fight, you're overlooking something else much more critical.

    While the brain can process information quickly and at almost lightning speed, it can not concentrate on two separate tasks at the same time.
    -Bark'n
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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I don't currently carry any extra magazines with me,
    Now why am I not surprised at that.

    No round in the chamber, and no spare reload?

    If you've ever had any professional training, I'd be surprised. I'd also be asking for my friggon money back. Sheesh.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  11. #25
    Member Array Walk Soft's Avatar
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    I shoot to slide lock.It used to help me determine if i was flinching(same as adding random snap caps in mag)when I pulled the trigger and nothing happened I could tell if I moved.Now i recognize the feel of the slide locking back.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Now why am I not surprised at that.

    No round in the chamber, and no spare reload?

    If you've ever had any professional training, I'd be surprised. I'd also be asking for my friggon money back. Sheesh.
    I was going to hit the like button, but Bark'n you hit the nail on the head. Forrest gump walks among us...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  13. #27
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    Fascinating thread, and one to which I'd like to offer a new twist.

    For over 20 years, my handgun of choice was the 1911. I carried one nearly every day, and burned through tens of thousands of rounds honing my defensive shooting skills. At some point during all this, Kimber introduces its Custom model to the market, and 1911s are changed forever. For me, that meant from that point on every 1911 I owned had an extended/oversized thumb safety. The grip I used when shooting changed, too. I began resting my thumbs on the safety, which seems to help my accuracy with double-taps.

    Yet for years, I had longed for a combination of my two favorite pistols: the 1911, and the Sig P220. And eventually, Sig answered my dreams with an SAO version, which I bought right away. It was (and is) a dream to shoot, and had all the accuracy potential of even the higher-end 1911s, while being far less complex in construction and nearly maintenance-free.

    Alas, it came with a problem that I am still wrestling with. Due to the shape of the P220 SAO thumb safety, if I rested both thumbs on the lever, they would also prevent the slide lock lever from engaging 100 percent of the time. Because of the increase in accuracy I get in self-defense shooting scenarios by "stacking" my thumbs, I continued to do so. After thousands (a guess) of uncounted rounds, I've never had a misfire or failure of any type (other than the slide lock issue) with my trusty P220, so I know when I pull the trigger and it goes, "click," it's time to drop the mag and insert a new one.

    This practice is now second-nature to me. I ask, at the risk of being piled-upon: am I correct to go with what works best for me, or should I retrain myself to reposition my thumbs when drawing my weapon so I gain the "luxury" of the slide locking back after every last round?
    BigRay

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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I've been trying to get myself in the habit of counting. I don't currently carry any extra magazines with me, so the slide lock issue doesn't matter. But I figure if I'm ever in a fire-fight it might be good to know how many rounds I have left without pulling the magazine to count. Unfortunately, I haven't got myself into the habit just yet.
    Seek training...seriously...I can't stress it enough.
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  15. #29
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    Its hard as hell to count bullets when they are flying both ways.

    There was a boot Lt. speaking of this very thing, and a full bird Col, overheard and immediately reprimanded the Lt. A short few years later, I found out the old Colonel was right. Experience trumps theory every day.
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  16. #30
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    I notice in my FoF training that just Bursting off the X, while accessing and pointshooting COM (despite ANY draw fouling that might occur) is totally encompassing for me against an aggressive opponent. I have no idea how I could count and remember or why I want to do that. It diverts my attention.

    I just want metal on meat while I keep squeezing and accelerating for all I am worth.

    When the slide locks, either I reload or have an impact weapon.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
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