Thinking of developing a workshop on going from H2H to armed response

This is a discussion on Thinking of developing a workshop on going from H2H to armed response within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Last week in my Level 2 Krav Maga class we started working on disarming someone who has a handgun pointed at us at close range. ...

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Thread: Thinking of developing a workshop on going from H2H to armed response

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Thinking of developing a workshop on going from H2H to armed response

    Last week in my Level 2 Krav Maga class we started working on disarming someone who has a handgun pointed at us at close range. During the class I watched how other students would handle the dummy guns after they have disarmed their opponent and I had to make sure I pointed out a few things to them, with the Instructor's permission.

    1. When pointing a firearm at someone who is very close you need to make sure the gun is close to you and off to your strong side a little, with both hands supporting the firearm. This allows you to control the firearm if you have to fire and keeps it close so they can't take it back.
    2. When you disarm someone, providing you actually got the gun away from them without being shot, you need to begin to back up and create distance while scanning the area. We train to fight and look for the BG's buddies to coem in from the sides so we need to do the same in this situation.
    3. The reason you slap the bottom of the mag and rack the slide when you take the gun form them is when you redirect and grab the firearm the most likely will pull the trigger. If you have grabbed the gun properly the slide might not have gone all the way back and/or during the process of disarming the person the mag release could have been pressed. Slapping the mag ensures it is seated properly and racking the slide ensures you have a chambered round in case you have to deploy his weapon.


    These are just a couple of things I could think of while I was in class and hot and sweaty myself. But it got me thinking about training in scenarios where I may be defending myself in a non lethal way and the other guy(s) take it to that level. How do I best go from a self defense fist fight to a defensive position with a firearm. How many of you have trained like this? My army training never took me here, we always trained as if we already had our rifles and then went hand to hand, not the other way around.

    I'm wondering if I can come up with a curriculum and discuss it with my instructors. I was asked already to consider becoming a Krav instructor so this might be a good way for me to see if that is a route I would like to take. I could come up with some lessons, try them out and vet them with the Instructors, and then hold some Saturday classes for students who would like to learn how to handle this type of situation.

    What are your thoughts? I know I am missing some things, even for a brain storming session.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    This is excellent stuff sir. I took a two day class very similar to what you've described and aside from a FOF class, it was better than any firearms training i've taken. Very important skills to have. If I was closer, i'd sign up.

    I wish you the best in your efforts.
    Luis

    "Everybody's got a plan, 'til they get hit".

    Mike Tyson

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    Here are my thoughts related to armed/unarmed training and self defense.

    - Self defense strategies and action(s) are a function of time and distance, among other things. The greater the awareness of your surroundings and situation, usually, there will be a greater amount of time available to appropriately react. Of course, "available time" can range from minutes to seconds. Therefore, based on the amount of time available and the distance of the threat, self defense may take the form of calling 911 right up to a hand-to-hand encounter. I would recommend "situational self defense" as a supplement to your workshop. It appears that you've covered this somewhat in #2.
    - Although, I think the type of training you're thinking about developing is a good thing, it's doubtful that you'll ever be able to develop armed/unarmed techniques to address every "what if" situation. As I'm sure you're aware, martial art practiioners, rely upon their repetitive training to take over in stressful situations. I would hate to see a student who has repetitively practice a particular (armed/unarmed) technique such as attempting to disarm a BG, and find out at the wrong time that it is ineffective, or even worse, it was the wrong thing to do.

    I'm sure I'll have more to say about this later, but I've got to go. Good luck in your class.

  5. #4
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    Sounds like you might be interested in our Zero to Five Feet Gunfighting class.....a review and pics from the one last week in Ohio can be found here.....Zero to Five Feet Ohio with Randy Harris, 7/23-7/24

    Upcoming class in Atlanta area can be found here....October 1-2, 2011 - Zero To Five Feet - Pistol Gunfighting - Atlanta, GA
    Randy Harris
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    Master Class IDPA SSP

    TRAIN with me....http://www.suarezinternationalstore....px?find=harris

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruel Hand Luke View Post
    Sounds like you might be interested in our Zero to Five Feet Gunfighting class
    Yes, that looks a lot like what is in my head. I might have to see if I can make it out to GA and play along. How firm are you guys on the pre-reqs for the previous shooting course?
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

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    Member Array Justified's Avatar
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    I have been podering a Krav Maga class as it appears to be a practical MA. Do you enjoy the class?
    We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us.
    - George Orwell Military

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justified View Post
    I have been podering a Krav Maga class as it appears to be a practical MA. Do you enjoy the class?
    I love it, as seen in this picture of a water break during my level 1 belt test.

    Hydration Break.JPG
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

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    Member Array Justified's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paco View Post
    I love it, as seen in this picture of a water break during my level 1 belt test.

    Hydration Break.JPG
    That looks tough, how do you break water?
    We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us.
    - George Orwell Military

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    Member Array Flasher's Avatar
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    Ask any woman who has given birth
    "How much self-defense is too much?"

    A prudent one foresees the evil and hides himself, but the simple pass on and are punished. - Proverbs 22:3

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flasher View Post
    Ask any woman who has given birth
    I do have 5 kids. I should ask my Wife which is easier, breaking boards or breaking water.
    Justified likes this.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

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