The Double Edge Sword and Force on Force Gunfighting at Night

The Double Edge Sword and Force on Force Gunfighting at Night

This is a discussion on The Double Edge Sword and Force on Force Gunfighting at Night within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; 07/15/2011 The Double Edge Sword and Force on Force Gunfighting at Night By Roger Phillips, Suarez International Specialist and Tier One Instructor “You do not ...

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Thread: The Double Edge Sword and Force on Force Gunfighting at Night

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    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    The Double Edge Sword and Force on Force Gunfighting at Night

    07/15/2011

    The Double Edge Sword and Force on Force Gunfighting at Night

    By Roger Phillips, Suarez International Specialist and Tier One Instructor

    “You do not know what you do not know!”

    This has become one of Suarez International’s (SI) top catch phrases. The reason for that is because it has been the absolute reality of the firearms training industry since the middle of the 1900’s. When we see skill sets or tactics that are staunchly defended, beyond any common sense, that we know does not work against a living, thinking, and resisting adversary “you do not know what you do not know” is the very core of the discussion.

    The difference between the SI student base and most of the other students of the gun is that we accept the fact that everyone is ignorant about something. We understand that the word “ignorant” is not an insult…….it is an obstacle that most be surpassed…….it is a challenge that must be met and conquered.

    Read more here


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    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Is it possible that some of the instructors are ignorant as well?

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    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Wow, really nice contribution!

    As a Suarez International Instructor, I am also a Suarez International student......"Always a student!"

    As the artical states
    everyone is ignorant about something.
    That would includes SI Instructors.

    Thanks for the quality input.

    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    Is it possible that some of the instructors are ignorant as well?

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    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweatnbullets View Post
    Wow, really nice contribution!

    As a Suarez International Instructor, I am also a Suarez International student......"Always a student!"

    As the artical states

    That would includes SI Instructors.

    Thanks for the quality input.
    Perhaps calming down is something you should do. Maybe he was just being a wiseguy. I too respond that way sometimes to the commercials on TV.
    glockman10mm likes this.

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    Thats a good article.

    Having done some LEO training in the dark, I know it isnt as easy as it sounds.

    We were doing a live fire exercise once, we a two man team had to exit the vehicle, use the vehicle as cover and engage two different targets. Of course what light we had was not good, using mostly our takedowns and a spotlight, but mixed in with blue lights it was pretty confusing. One of the targets popped up behind a vehicle several feet away and we both engaged,shooting it down. As I was looking for the other, my partner spotted it first and I happened to be looking right at his gun when he unloaded his G21. He shot several times and the target went down.

    When asked why I didnt shoot, I had to tell them that I couldnt see anything, never mind the target. I had a .45 sized fireball "burnt" on my eyeballs for several minutes.

    Another time we did FOF on an abandoned house. The scenario was that a armed and dangerous felon was suspected of a murder and had been seen on that location.
    I was the first to go. I cleared the whole house and nothing. I was beggining to think that I missed him and was contemplating redoing it when he stepped out from behind a shed and double tapped me right in the back.

    I wasnt the only one, he got all 7 of us using the same trick.

    In what little night time FOF training that I have had over the years, I know that it can be very difficult trying to apprehend someone if they are using the cover of darkness.

    I wish I had more night training, because like the article stated, alot of danger comes with the dark. I guess I'm fortunate to have had a little, many of our officers have had none.

    I'm glad to see that someone out there is doing it.

    Once again, its a good article that makes one think about some things.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I read the article, and it has some good points. My thoughts are that it is more suited to LE applications. The LEO has a duty to search and find, and fight if necessary, while the civillian gun toter does not, except in a very remote situation.

    I have participated in LE training to include night fire and location by search, and it can be very dangerous, worse than room clearing.

    It was in my mind during this traing, that there is no way in hell I would choose to do this given the choice.

    Tis may be better, and more tactically sound to use the darkness to make your escape. Or just lay real still and let them come to you, or better yet, let them go away.

    That's a win/win technique.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    It can be bad business.

    I had a friend take part of a shotgun blast to the face and neck clearing a back yard. Thanks to distance and the load being birdshot he was not seriously injured.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    I wasnt being a wise guy. Having a bit of practical experience I'm always curious if the instructor/school is open minded enough to learn from the student. I've heard nothing but good things about Suarez and Co. Of course there will always be those with personal issues... That rahash history... But thats all that is. My question was serious. As I'm looking to expand my skill-set. And Suarez & Co. is someplace I think I would fit in.

    Spuk!

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    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    I wasnt being a wise guy. Having a bit of practical experience I'm always curious if the instructor/school is open minded enough to learn from the student. I've heard nothing but good things about Suarez and Co. Of course there will always be those with personal issues... That rahash history... But thats all that is. My question was serious. As I'm looking to expand my skill-set. And Suarez & Co. is someplace I think I would fit in.

    Spuk!
    Dude, I didn't have a issue with your reply at all. I've got a problem with cheerleaders...

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