Seen a lot of thread about reaction times. Some people are pretty darn quick to draw and shoot when they are in condition "red" and waiting for a timer and/or command to draw and fire. However, let's say you are in condition yellow, for example, at a local Costco shopping, minding your own business (or where ever) and all of a sudden something happens and you need to draw quickly and fire. What do you think a reasonable reaction time would be to assess the situation, draw and fire?
Excellent question, I suppose it is subjective based on the threat or capability of the threat; assessing the threat could take seconds or be just fractions of a second.
Well, it happened last night to me. When a big pit approach my 7 and 9 year old, I cleared leather and put myself between the dog and the kids. Im not sure about the time of the event, but it was dam fast. When I hit the sidewalk the dog made eye contact and split when I yelled at it. My wife just looked at me and smiled.
It all boils down to your training, and practice as to how fast you will be. IMO. For your scenario, if it hits the fan and your clearing leather you should be around 1.5 to 3 seconds as a general rule. Some will be faster, some slower.
fwiw: your gun is not welcome at costco, while they don't post it if they spot you they will ask you to leave their corporate policy is no guns in their stores.
as for condition red, I can do it in training real fast, I can have 2 shots off in a shade over a second, my best was 1.04, who knows what would happen in a real SD incident, I hope that I've trained enough that there shouldn't be too much of a drop off
When I was exiting the door of a Sears store and I saw a guy running towards us, like a bum rush and noticed something in his right hand, it took me about 1.5 seconds to shove my granddaughter behind me as I took a stance and had my hand on my gun. I could have shot them within that time, but I have a "pause" factor ... which I reassess one last time .... he was lucky there was a pause factor. He stopped and threw up his hands and slowly started backing off. Never good to go running up on someone like that.
He was a Sears employee with a 'radio' in his hand.... but not with the typical shirt that everyone else had on. I don't know what he was doing, and he never said a word, he just "left".
One of the factors to consider is what you are doing with your hands at the time. Are you carrying bags of groceries, holding a baby, holding hands with your SO, holding a couple of dog leashes, etc.?
Drawing and firing against a timer, there is a predetermination to draw and fire. The reaction time is merely the time for the mind to perceive the signal and act on it. I consider anything under a second acceptable in that situation. In a real situation, in addition to reaction and action, there is the time required to identify the activity/person as a threat. That time could vary depending on a number of things. Generally speaking, I would see anything under two seconds as an acceptable overall time.
I'd have to agree, with an anticipated action, like drawing at a range when a pre-determined buzzer or light signals you to do so, it would be faster. I real life, you have to first perceive the threat (your attention may be occupied with wife/kids/etc) then react to it, (and your hands may be occupied at the time), Two seconds would be pretty quick in most cases. Unfortunately, two seconds is a long long time, and the bad guy could squeeze off 4 or 5 shots in that time.
The key to surviving is taking the right actions well before a threat presents itself: Look for cover, look for people emitting danger signs, keep your strong hand free... just pay attention to your surroundings!
Though you may be armed and confident of your ability to protect yourself, the best way to avoid an assault is to avoid vulnerable positions.
I read an article on this a while back and the author ran some force on force drills in which sometimes nothing happened, and others, a person was attacked. The reactions, IIRC, (perceiving, drawing from concealment, and getting rounds on target), were generally around 2.5 - 3 seconds.
This is why I've employed Kato for no-notice force-on-force training. Keeps my reaction times down.
^ :lol: FTW.
Yes, my 6-year-old attacks at-random.
The Force Science Institute has some great articles about reaction time and the OODA loop.
Much of it is framed in terms of law-enforcement and use-of-force legalities, but the data is still very, very interesting, and applies to any threat scenario, even civilian.
...most will revert to their training; you have trained, yes?
for those that see.and.do, action time can be under 1 second.
for those that see....something--let me look closer to make sure...
and than form an action---2 seconds, perhaps closer to 3; and likely whatever was going to happen, has.
one drops the pakages in their hands and using the same motion acquires their gun or initiates a planned action.
the other finally decides that there is danger and looks about for a safe place to put their
package so it will not get damaged
one is a fighter; a survuver. the other--though armed, is neither.
I agree Claude, but would add that training is a perishable skill.
It is not like learning your ABCs, it is use it or loose it. One does not get to the skills mentioned above with a one time visit to a class no matter who the instructor is. It takes dedicated consistent effort to get to the fighter skills you mentioned.
I would venture a guess that there are more people who are under trained in the CC world than just about any other.