Ruthlessness

Ruthlessness

This is a discussion on Ruthlessness within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I attended a one-day fundamentals class recently, which I try to do once a year. Just a refresher/tune up session. It was an eight hour ...

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Thread: Ruthlessness

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array RoadRunner71's Avatar
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    Ruthlessness

    I attended a one-day fundamentals class recently, which I try to do once a year. Just a refresher/tune up session. It was an eight hour class; the weather was beautiful, sunny and 65 degrees. You just have to love Michigan this time of year.

    The class was well organized and professionally run. I have taken classes from the same people before and the training is straight forward and non-judgmental. There were people there with varying skill levels, as would be expected in a fundamentals class. The instructors are all no-nonsense types with a wealth of experience in military, law enforcement and just real life.

    One of the added bonuses of this class came between the drills when the various instructors would talk about mindset in actual situations. They talked about being able to flip the switch between the mindset of de-escalation and avoidance and going to the ruthless, never give up mindset. Things that we, here, all know and understand. Any one who has been in a school yard fight should understand this.

    Well, there was one fellow who didn’t understand. During several of the earlier talks, he had been shaking his head in disbelief or possibly disagreement. He was really being annoying and not a little disrespectful. One of the instructors was explaining how the willingness to win at all costs is key to survival in a fight and was being very forthright in his descriptions at one point. The disbeliever looked at me and said,”This guy is a real [deleted]. He is just too mean spirited.”

    I just looked at the guy and said, “If something bad happens, I intended to become the biggest, baddest SOB you will ever meet, and so will he. If something went down right now and we had to fight for our lives, who do you think I want standing beside me, him or you?” I turned and walked away.

    I really hope this guy comes around and sees the light someday. His life may depend on it.
    TSiWRX and MikeNice like this.
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  2. #2
    Member Array PhillipRoser's Avatar
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    That's sad that someone would make a decision to carry for their safety or a loved ones safety but yet be too nice to use it, I hope I never have to use my gun but if that day comes, like you said, I'm gonna be worse than a drug addict on meth
    For God and Country

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    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    My signature is the way I was trained and the way I think.

    Hurt them first, hurt them bad and hurt them again.

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    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Once the fight start the ONLY thougnt that should be in your head is I will win. The fight is not over until the BG is down or I am dead and can not move. Blood means nothing, pain does not exist I keep doing what I train and I win.

    With out that thought I see you losing the fight before it ever started most times. Yes there are time when the BG runs at the sight of your gun, but I draw to shoot and kill the SOB. If he runs fine, but that is not my mind set.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

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    There should be no such thing as a fair fight...if forced into a corner, make it quick and violent.OMOYMV
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  6. #6
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    What did the instructor recommend for training to locate and operate this switch?

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Some folks just dont take there defense as serious as they should.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cammo girl View Post
    What did the instructor recommend for training to locate and operate this switch?
    Take a look at this web site for some ideas.

    OS

    Self Defense Training | Tim Larkin | Martial Arts Training - Target Focus Training
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

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    Guys we have all seen the multiple posts by members who feel that the simple fact that they have a firearm will meet the criteria set forth in the latest guns and ammo poll where 100 criminals voted on the scariest handguns to face during the commision of a crime. We also know that these same people do not have suffcient training or confidence in their firearm or their abilities to even carry with a round in the chamber.

    Yet these same individuals will step up when a news event occurs in reference to a shooting or a scenario is presented and all of a sudden are Rambo and Arnold combined and how they would calmly take the headshot at 50 yards while shielding their familiy and innocent bystanders from incoming fire from the multiple attackers armed with AK's.

    We as a collective must keep on trying to convince these folks to get there head out of their sandboxes, lord I am getting polite in my old age, and think about what they are doing and what they will face in the real world. As I and others have stated over and over all it takes is one determined individual who wants what you have and who has not read the latest statistics or rule book and you are done for.

    OP good post and topic.
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    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    This is a difficult subject to broach with those who have had little to no exposure to violent encounters. It is easy for them to misunderstand what you are attempting to convey to them. I think that the use of certain words, like "ruthless", exacerbate the problem.

    To me ruthless suggests an conscious inclination or intent to be merciless or cruel. I don't believe that myself or most people are ruthless when acting to stop criminal violence, merely exercising whatever actions that they believe are most likely to stop the violence as quickly as possible. Should I/they continue their actions well beyond what is necessary, then those actions might become ruthless. So, I consider it an inappropriate use of "ruthless" to describe the use whatever actions necessary to stop criminal violence.

    It is fortitude, combined with a willingness to initiate necessary, although unpleasant, actions to terminate criminal violence, not ruthlessness that can save the day.
    Hopyard, cammo, Bark'n and 2 others like this.
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    This is a difficult subject to broach with those who have had little to no exposure to violent encounters. It is easy for them to misunderstand what you are attempting to convey to them. I think that the use of certain words, like "ruthless", exacerbate the problem.

    To me ruthless suggests an conscious inclination or intent to be merciless or cruel. I don't believe that myself or most people are ruthless when acting to stop criminal violence, merely exercising whatever actions that they believe are most likely to stop the violence as quickly as possible. Should I/they continue their actions well beyond what is necessary, then those actions might become ruthless. So, I consider it an inappropriate use of "ruthless" to describe the use whatever actions necessary to stop criminal violence.

    It is fortitude, combined with a willingness to initiate necessary, although unpleasant, actions to terminate criminal violence, not ruthlessness that can save the day.
    Dont take this the wrong way. Dont you think your being a little politically correct? As I see it, if your in the throws of a violent encounter, you should use all that you have to win. If that means being ruthless, then so be it.
    Last edited by Harryball; September 19th, 2011 at 02:31 PM.
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    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Dont take this the wrong way. Dont you think your being a little politically correct? As I see it, if your in the throws of a violent encounter, you should use all that you have to win. If that means being ruthless, the so be it.
    It has nothing to do with being politically correct. Ruthlessness relates to the intent or purpose of an action, not the action itself. In a dire self defense situation, there is no time to even consider if ones actions are merciless or cruel. There is little enough time to even consider if they will be effective. If the primary purpose of an action is to stop criminal aggression, it is by definition, not ruthless.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  13. #13
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    He is just too mean spirited
    Spoken like a man with little comprehension of reality. He dosent know what he dosent know and his feeble little mind is offended by the use of the word "ruthless"so he chooses to be offended and probably has not heard another word that the Instructor has said because he has closed his mind.

    It's a shame really, that he will not understand the meaning of the word "ruthless" until some thug makes it real to him.
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    While I will concur that the actions of criminal offenders are often ruthless, I believe that it is rare that a defenders actions are.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    It has nothing to do with being politically correct. Ruthlessness relates to the intent or purpose of an action, not the action itself. In a dire self defense situation, there is no time to even consider if ones actions are merciless or cruel. There is little enough time to even consider if they will be effective. If the primary purpose of an action is to stop criminal aggression, it is by definition, not ruthless.
    I appreciate and understand your point. Im going to stand by my own thinking on this. I think we are on the same page, just separated by definition.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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