If you HAD to teach yourself..........

This is a discussion on If you HAD to teach yourself.......... within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; "A self-taught man usually has a poor teacher and a worse student." Henny Youngman Hi all - Having (hopefully) derailed the above or similar responses, ...

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Thread: If you HAD to teach yourself..........

  1. #1
    Member Array pbchunker's Avatar
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    If you HAD to teach yourself..........

    "A self-taught man usually has a poor teacher and a worse student." Henny Youngman

    Hi all -

    Having (hopefully) derailed the above or similar responses, what 4 (to keep it within some bounds) books/resources would you rely on for learning to best defend yourself with a handgun?

    I ask because I can't afford several hundred $$ worth of training/ammo, which circumstance I respectfully ask that you not bring into the discussion.
    I can, however, afford several books/videos/whatever, seriatim.

    I'll appreciate all sincere responses to the essential question.

    regards,
    Terry
    NRA Life Member

    I will never intentionally shoot your sacred cow

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Suarez International has several DVDs I like. Close Range Gunfighting is a good basic DVD set (2-DVDs) that also incorporates elements of mindset and tactics into it.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    The NRA has several videos available,I got one somewhere that deals with home defense,on the Sportsman channel,there is/was a show that dealt with different situations and had Massad Ayoob,and Gabe Suarez,you can practice those drills with airsoft guns,
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Senior Member Array Tzadik's Avatar
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    I've found Magpul's "The Art of the Dynamic Handgun" and Personal Defense Network's DVDs helpful.
    Check out pistol-forum.com also, some great info there on drills and training techniques.
    Practice often. If you can't get to a range, dryfire with snap-caps frequently.
    SIGguy229 and OldVet like this.

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    Magpul, Suarez, Tactical Response offer great videos. Take what you can from each. Snap caps or laser target systems are good to practice/play with.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, Clint smith, Magpul dynamics and Rob Pincus. Take from all of them, practice what they teach.
    OD* likes this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Stick with the professionally-recognized groups like Suarez and Magpul...

    RUN away from the buffoonery you find you YouTube...
    Chad Rogers likes this.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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    Member Array pbchunker's Avatar
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    I already have/read Grossman's "On Killing" and "On Combat".
    Being an old geezer, what's the current view of Jeff Cooper's books - still relevant/recommended?
    Terry
    NRA Life Member

    I will never intentionally shoot your sacred cow

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    You might want to review these short, freebie snippets of the Inside The Crucible series VIDS by Jim Grover AKA Kelly McCann.
    McCann also has a Tac Carbine that is quite good, solid, and entry level.
    He is an excellent instructor & the Vids begin with extremely basic stuff. His Videos are not cheap.
    Normally I would lend you my complimentary complete series but, I already lent the set out & they were never returned.

    I'm certain that any instructional Vids by Suarez would also be great and very worthwhile.












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    Ex Member Array tcon67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    You might want to review these short, freebie snippets of the Inside The Crucible series VIDS by Jim Grover AKA Kelly McCann.
    McCann also has a Tac Carbine that is quite good, solid, and entry level.
    He is an excellent instructor & the Vids begin with extremely basic stuff. His Videos are not cheap.
    Normally I would lend you my complimentary complete series but, I already lent the set out & they were never returned.

    I'm certain that any instructional Vids by Suarez would also be great and very worthwhile.
    I agree. Kelly McCann is one of the best I've seen. I also like Rob Pincus, Gabe Suarez, and Clint Smith and Massad Ayoob is very knowlegeable about the legal ends of SD. One thing I have learned is try to learn something from several different instructors, no one persons techniques are going to work for everyone. The main thing is, never stop learning. We all can learn something new everyday!!
    Catfan63 and nerdyvirgin like this.

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    A lot of what is offered on YouTube in the way of firearms training is worth exactly what you pay for it. The good stuff - guess what, you have to pay for.

    My first wife was unnaturally fearful of handguns, so for years I couldn't keep a handgun in the house. A precision air pistol, however, was deemed acceptable. So for a period of 3-5 years, my handgun shooting was in my basement with a homemade quiet bullet trap shooting a .177 pistol at about 22 feet. The specific gun was a Beeman P-1, with a grip and balance pretty close to a 1911, and capable of one-hole groups in my hands from a steady rest. Single shot is a considerable limitation, but I was able to work on all the other elements of speed and accuracy - grip, stance, draw-and-shoot, limited only by my imagination. By the time the household climate came back into Earth orbit and "permitted" a handgun, I had over 25,000 single-shot pistol rounds under my belt (and better eyes then today) and I was pretty capable with a real handgun.

    Cost-wise, the gun was of course the big initial investment, and good pellets were about 1.5 cents a round. With deliberately loading and shooting one round at a time, a typical 45-minute session cost me less than a buck. Zero cost for range time and near zero for maintenance. Today, the P-1 is still available but around $500, probably too steep for you right now (but look for a used one). For just over $200 you can get the P-3 (nearly the same accuracy, due to a good rifled barrel) and pellets are just over 2 cents each.

    If this sounds like an approach that would work for you, do your homework about which gun you choose. Skip the BB and airsoft guns for accuracy reasons. Likewise, CO2 and green-gas guns will drive your per-shot costs up. Find a gun that resembles a real firearm in grip and weight, and make sure it has a rifled barrel. I'd skip the long-barreled ones as well, such as the RWS LP-8 and the Benjamin pump-up.
    Smitty
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    Member Array pbchunker's Avatar
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    A very useful approach, Smitty, and I appreciate your input, but I do have my carry gun and a .22 auto.
    Also, I reload and have several hundred pounds of lead, a powder/primer stash and suitable range in my (very rural) yard.
    So I can do a reasonable amount of shooting.

    I already have enough to work with for quite a while from the suggestions above - that 1st video shows me how a proper draw should be done - probably keep me busy for awhile by itself!
    You folks are great!

    Thanks to all.
    Terry
    NRA Life Member

    I will never intentionally shoot your sacred cow

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbchunker View Post
    "A self-taught man usually has a poor teacher and a worse student." Henny Youngman

    Hi all -

    Having (hopefully) derailed the above or similar responses, what 4 (to keep it within some bounds) books/resources would you rely on for learning to best defend yourself with a handgun?

    I ask because I can't afford several hundred $$ worth of training/ammo, which circumstance I respectfully ask that you not bring into the discussion.
    I can, however, afford several books/videos/whatever, seriatim.

    I'll appreciate all sincere responses to the essential question.

    regards,
    First, get a realistic attitude, and set manageable goals for yourself.

    You aren't going to teach yourself as well as a Tier 1 school with qualified instructors. It doesn't happen.

    That said, you can get a lot out of books, videos and iron hard practice of fundamentals.

    Check gun shows for old police marksmanship manuals that focus deeply on the fundamentals and buy them cheap. Read them with an open mind. No, they aren't what is taught today for the most part, but the instructors in those books do know well how to convey information about sight picture, sight alignment, trigger control & follow through.

    Ayoob's older books, Paul B. Weston's books, the Caliber Press books can all be picked up cheap if you look hard enough.

    They are great to read and will, if you adhere to them, help you.

    If you don't have a .22lr - buy one. A used .22lr will get you the ability to practice live fire for pennies and dry fire drills/mag change/speed loader drills will let you practice with a centerfire gun.

    Take advantage of Appleseed events, NRA classes on fundamentals, buy an hour here and their of and instructors time and you can get a good skillset going.

    And save for a 2 day class.

    If you go with youtube for a source:

    #1 If comments are disabled, forget it.
    #2 If it makes you say "***?!" forget it.
    #3 If it doesn't concentrate on fundamentals with good explanation...run screaming.

    A lot of reputable people have videos demoing techniques. Find them.

    Avoid people who's basis of information is "I've been carrying this gun for a while..." or "I'd like to show you my take on chamber empty draws...I haven't done this for real, but it seems cool!"

    You want that BS, or a video on drawstroke my Paul Gomez/James Yeager/Ayoob?

    When you shoot, have a plan.
    You will work on a dot torture target...1-hole drills...mag changes...something
    You will get more from that than ballistic masturbation ("I shot 100 rounds!!"...no, you made 100 loud noises.)

    Accept what you can do with what you have, work hard at it and make sure you have thoroughly and completely understood what you have before you move to more advanced things.
    First Sgt, Catfan63 and SIGguy229 like this.

  15. #14
    Member Array pbchunker's Avatar
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    BTW -

    Does anyone know of a similar video for IWB carry - that's how I carry a majority of the time (untucked Tee/pullover shirt; denim jacket/winter), don't anticipate strongside carry, so reckon I should learn properly what I'll use.

    Tnx again.
    Terry
    NRA Life Member

    I will never intentionally shoot your sacred cow

  16. #15
    Member Array pbchunker's Avatar
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    Sounds like sound advice, Mitchell - duly noted.

    "Paul Gomez/James Yeager/Ayoob"

    I'm old enough to recognize Ayoob from his early years, but not familiar with the others - all no-nos?
    Or no-knows?

    EDIT: I just realized you're contrasting them against the BS'ers - slow, but I got it.
    Last edited by pbchunker; September 25th, 2011 at 03:18 PM.
    Terry
    NRA Life Member

    I will never intentionally shoot your sacred cow

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