Basic hand-to-hand combat training? Options?

Basic hand-to-hand combat training? Options?

This is a discussion on Basic hand-to-hand combat training? Options? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm 60 years old and would like to improve basic hand-to-hand fighting skills. Not looking to become a MMA fighter or anything like that. I've ...

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    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Basic hand-to-hand combat training? Options?

    I'm 60 years old and would like to improve basic hand-to-hand fighting skills. Not looking to become a MMA fighter or anything like that. I've taken some judo and karate, but that was 30 years ago. I'm in reasonable shape, I walk/jog a few miles every day and lift a little weight. But my endurance is nothing like it was in my younger days.

    I've done some research and Krav Maga seems like it might be one of my best options, but I am open to any suggestions. I don't mean to sound too lazy, but I'm looking for the maximum self-defense return with the minimum investment of time and energy.

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks, Dave in RI
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi


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    VIP Member Array shadowwalker's Avatar
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    I'm 71 and you picked a great one which I have enjoyed and the other is the one used by the Russians and it is absolute street fighting at its best.

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    Member Array mfcmb's Avatar
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    I suggest you look in your area to see if anyone gives "self defense" classes as opposed to a regular martial art. Often such classes focus on a small number of street-effective techniques. Barring that, Krav Maga or JiuJitsu or Jeet Kun Do are likely to spend a larger percentage of their training time on street-effective martial arts than many other arts. Whatever you do, it will take lots of long-term practice to really be effective.
    In the heat of the moment, what matters is what your body knows -- not what your mind knows.

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    Member Array COlongshot's Avatar
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    I recommend Krav Maga STRONGLY

    It is based on the most practical solutions to problems. There are people of all ages and types at the place I train. A class usually involves a lot of partner work (practicing escapes, counters, strikes yada yada) and I work with people bigger, smaller, older, younger, and more female than me (ha). The classes are a great workout. I go more times a week than most people, but expect to get in shape. In general nationwide it's a friendly community, but there are bad gyms out there just like anything. Do your research, you should be able to figure out pretty quick. Most gyms also offer a free class to try it out. My gym also offers other programs and crossfit too. Honestly I think you might like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    I'm 60 years old and would like to improve basic hand-to-hand fighting skills. Not looking to become a MMA fighter or anything like that. I've taken some judo and karate, but that was 30 years ago. I'm in reasonable shape, I walk/jog a few miles every day and lift a little weight. But my endurance is nothing like it was in my younger days.

    I've done some research and Krav Maga seems like it might be one of my best options, but I am open to any suggestions. I don't mean to sound too lazy, but I'm looking for the maximum self-defense return with the minimum investment of time and energy.

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks, Dave in RI
    Endurance shouldn't be an issue for a real fight as those seldom last more than a few seconds. Endurance can be an issue in a class; we old goats can't really *usually* keep up with 17-23 y.olds. That's just unrealistic.

    You can work on endurance, speed and technique, on your own. Take a look at the Bass Rutten stuff you can find if you google his name. He has some really good SD vids on youtube too.

    My instructor had me doing lots of his stuff; mostly to build speed and endurance in kick boxing/ krav-like stuff; but I like his mind set and attitude. Great sense of humor too.

    That said, there are other things which may be more appropriate for a guy your age. Since you had some training years ago either try to pick up on that, so you take advantage of what you already have some background in, or find someone who teaches SD specifically.

    I know you said you don't want to be an MMA fighter (understandable of course) and some of the Bass Rutten stuff is sort going to seem like it is oriented in that direction, but it is good stuff.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    Look into stuff that uses simple gross motor skills. Complexity only works when the fight is scripted.Think WWII combatives.

    Also look for something that works from a perspective of reacting to assault and regaining the initiative...not fighting in a tournament when you both agree on the rules,the time and the place. There is a huge difference.
    tcox4freedom likes this.
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    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruel Hand Luke View Post
    Look into stuff that uses simple gross motor skills. Complexity only works when the fight is scripted.Think WWII combatives.

    Also look for something that works from a perspective of reacting to assault and regaining the initiative...not fighting in a tournament when you both agree on the rules,the time and the place. There is a huge difference.
    I agree. I'm 50yrs old and disabled. I can't move much at all. But, I demonstrated some basic "deflect" & "counter" moves to some people this past weekend. They were really surprised of their simplicity and effectiveness.

    Think "simple" moves that will help you create distance and give you time to draw & shoot.

    Being disabled, I do NOT want to end up on the ground; nor, am I able to run away. But, simple arm sweeps/grabs can get a BG off balance and create 10'-15' of distance very easily. I also think learning a few quick moves that can take an attacker down or at least knock them off balance is a good idea as well.

    Both can help you gain "time" & create "distance".

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    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    Ahem...not to be a wet blanket, but what else in life comes with a minimum investment of time, energy, or money? Nothing, frankly. So if you think that a couple of lessons in a McDojo will help you in a street fight, well I would respectfully disagree. And those guys who sell you on the idea that in a 4 hour course you can be taught to disarm and disable Chuck Norris are selling snake oil.

    In reality, learning armed and unarmed combatives and self defense takes time, attention, and effort. A good system will help you get better every class rather than being like a puzzle that you need all pieces of to be effective. And even a few months of significant and honest martial arts can be very helpful. Frankly, though it is all the rage I really don't recommend Krav. I respect it, I know it's use, but realize that it was designed for the military. In other words, it was designed by young, strong men for young, strong men. I want a system that works when I am old and frail too, and Krav is not designed for that.

    Me? I study American Kenpo. But to each their own. And I train hard, regularly, and make no excuses. That would be my suggestion, because otherwise I think that your ROI will be very limited.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
    Christianity and Self Defense from a Biblical Perspective

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    Krav-Maga is the ticket if you're looking for a real world "fight ending" system. However, getting in good shape will serve you better than anything else when it comes to hand-to-hand. I'd recommend a basic exercise program focusing on strength training/ cardiovascular/ flexibility. Being in shape can not only give you a better offensive, but it will even allow to take a more of a punch and recover MUCH quicker.

    Krav-Maga is great stuff, but it's not really the "starting point".

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    Quote Originally Posted by MinistrMalic View Post
    In reality, learning armed and unarmed combatives and self defense takes time, attention, and effort. A good system will help you get better every class rather than being like a puzzle that you need all pieces of to be effective. And even a few months of significant and honest martial arts can be very helpful. Frankly, though it is all the rage I really don't recommend Krav. I respect it, I know it's use, but realize that it was designed for the military. In other words, it was designed by young, strong men for young, strong men. I want a system that works when I am old and frail too, and Krav is not designed for that.
    What I put in bold is quite important. I agree. However, Krav (and similar) are good for old men too if you have the good health to do it. A 3 minute Bass Rutten style kick boxing routine can do wonders for an old body assuming you are in good and reasonable health.

    Fact is, OP is already 60. Guys his age (or worse, mine) have to be fairly selective about what they try and they need to train around the limitations age puts on them. For us, falling, being thrown, going to the ground, are not really options. A young man might do a forward roll out of a lock, or deliberately drop to the ground to gain some advantage or leverage in certain situations. Folks my age need to not even be thinking of moves like this. Broken bones -especially vertebrae and hips are game enders.

    The message I'm inarticulately trying to convey is that rather than adhere to a specific style, find someone who can instruct you in the things your body can do, and who can teach you how to avoid letting your opponent take advantage of the weak points due to age.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Guys his age (or worse, mine) have to be fairly selective about what they try and they need to train around the limitations age puts on them. For us, falling, being thrown, going to the ground, are not really options. A young man might do a forward roll out of a lock, or deliberately drop to the ground to gain some advantage or leverage in certain situations. Folks my age need to not even be thinking of moves like this. Broken bones -especially vertebrae and hips are game enders.
    In American Kenpo we call this tailoring the art to the individual. And trust me when I say, a LOT of real-world fights will end up with at least the threat of being on the ground at some point. So the ground must be your friend and not your enemy. And if training in a stressful environment is not for you, then whatever you do stay away from Krav. That art is hard training.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
    Christianity and Self Defense from a Biblical Perspective

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    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioGLoCK23 View Post
    Krav-Maga is the ticket if you're looking for a real world "fight ending" system. However, getting in good shape will serve you better than anything else when it comes to hand-to-hand. I'd recommend a basic exercise program focusing on strength training/ cardiovascular/ flexibility. Being in shape can not only give you a better offensive, but it will even allow to take a more of a punch and recover MUCH quicker.

    Krav-Maga is great stuff, but it's not really the "starting point".
    I agree with this post. But with the caveat, some people have severe limits on the physical "shape" they can attain. (Think MS, cerebral palsey, RA, ect.)

    For these people, a few "simple" yet "effective" moves (usually) work best.

    -

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    When you think your to old to fight,"SHOOT".

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    Ex Member Array BioGLoCK23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    I agree with this post. But with the caveat, some people have severe limits on the physical "shape" they can attain. (Think MS, cerebral palsey, RA, ect.)

    For these people, a few "simple" yet "effective" moves (usually) work best.

    -
    You're right TCOX... getting into good shape isn't an option for everyone. If and when I become physically impaired by age or illness I'm going to rely on weaponry. The sick, or elderly have a much easier claim to "disparity of force" anyway.

    But for those you can achieve fitness should do so. You can maintain much easier than you can repair and replace.
    tcox4freedom likes this.

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    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Thank you all for the replies so far. I think most of you understand my objectives. I am keeping myself in reasonable shape, more for the health benefits than anything else. But of course, being in reasonable shape makes it all that much easier to train.

    Ideally, I hope to find some relatively simple and effective training techniques that can also be used for general physical conditioning. I'm not looking to beat up Chuck Norris, LOL. I just don't want to go down like a helpless sack of potatoes at the first punch.

    Thanks again......................
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

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