Point Shooting - Page 3

Point Shooting

This is a discussion on Point Shooting within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by DRM Point Shooting vs. Sighted Fire Personally, I don't understand the debate. But then, I don't look at it as an "either ...

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  1. #31
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    Point Shooting vs. Sighted Fire

    Personally, I don't understand the debate. But then, I don't look at it as an "either or" proposition.
    I have never understood the "either or" mentality myself, but if you read some of these "experts" writings, I come away with the feeling it's all about their egos.
    DRM likes this.
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  2. #32
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    I find "BOTH / AND" more useful than "EITHER / OR".

    .... as in BOTH (point shooting) AND (sighted shooting).

    I infer from FBI gunfight research Force Science News that "instinctive" shooting style is very effective in close range gunfight situations.

    Since "guantes" first posted that document I have included close range (3 feet to 5 feet) instinctive point-shooting practice for at least a few mags. during every practice trip to the range (I will be getting real training on this but until I do I want to know what I can do at this range without getting to full extension or acquiring a sight picture).

    I have been amazed at the consistent good hits I get.
    I encourage you to try it.
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  3. #33
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    Lightbulb

    I
    have never understood the "either or" mentality myself, but if you read some of these "experts" writings, I come away with the feeling it's all about their egos.
    Well, I have to admit I have an EGO...

    Some say Iím arrogant, too. But I think people confuse arrogance with confidence some times. For me, my confidence comes from Mastering the Fist-Fireģ Shooting Techniques.

    I know that if I execute the technique, the targets will fall...they have to because it's all based upon the Science of Kinesthetic Awareness and Optical Indexing (NOT Body Indexing ). Case in point:

    Last edited by DRM; November 17th, 2011 at 08:50 AM.
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  4. #34
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    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruel Hand Luke View Post
    I didn't realize they took a vote and named Hackathorn the worlds best trainer....

    Also you appear to be contradicting your own argument when you say that since point shooting only works at 10 feet or less (which can be argued) and since civilians only shoot people up close that you SHOULD learn to point shoot.....

    first let us define terms. Point shooting is NOT just hip shooting. There is a full spectrum from 2 handed shooting from chin level while looking over the top of the gun at the target all the way down to shooting as the muzzle leaves the holster. In most matches I only look for the sights when the target is either a body shot farther than 7 yards or a head shot farther than 3 yards.

    But I almost NEVER shoot from lower than chest level. It is NOT old school " FBI crouch shooting", but instead something similar to "Point Shoulder" that Applegate references in "Kill or Get Killed". But I do shoot from less than full extension on close (5 yards or less) targets. Think the #3 position of the drawstroke.

    Why? Because I can and there is no reason to look for a picture perfect sight picture if your drawstroke drives the gun to the same place everytime. Now if you have a less than optimal grip and a random drawstroke that causes you to have to look for the sights to make sure the gun is pointed AT the target then yeah...you probably need to stick to using sights. Some people don't have to though.

    I'm a master class IDPA shooter and most targets less than 7 yards do not need a "sight picture " to hit them in the -0 zone.. Read Brian Enos's work on the different types of focus and it will make sense...hopefully. Most MATCHES are shot with the majority of targets farther than 5 yards. Point shooting is best done at distances 5 yards or less for most people. So discussing what works in matches vs what works in close range criminal assault is like comparing driving a tractor on the farm to driving a NASCAR at Talladega. They both are vehicles. They both run on fossil fuel . They both have a steering wheel ....but that is where the similarities end.

    Simply put...if your grip is good ( puts muzzle in line with bones in your arm) and your presentation(drawstroke) drives the gun to where it points the muzzle at the focal point (spot on the target you are looking at) and your trigger press does not jerk the gun off target then you can most likely shoot EXCEEDINGLY well without looking for the sights (NO MATTER WHAT YOUR BODY POSITION IS) out to about 7 to 10 yards. Past that ...You need sights. Inside that, your sights are like training wheels. Look for them until you learn to drive the gun without NEEDING to look for them.
    I agree with this.

    And as you noted, each of us brings a different level of skill to the table so the distance we transition from point to sighted fire will differ depending on the individual.

    Jim

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GentlemanJim View Post
    I agree with this.

    And as you noted, each of us brings a different level of skill to the table so the distance we transition from point to sighted fire will differ depending on the individual.

    Jim
    That's $50 dollars worth of confidence that I've never heard elsewhere.

    Thanks.

    This pointing and shooting Ladies and Gentlemen - it is not difficult or cultish business. It's just like trowing a baseball. It's just like putting your foot on the gas. It just like singing in church....

    Hmmm........ OK, I see now where this point shooting might not be all that natural for everybody...


  7. #37
    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    I

    Well, I have to admit I have an EGO...

    Some say I’m arrogant, too. But I think people confuse arrogance with confidence some times. For me, my confidence comes from Mastering the Fist-Fireģ Shooting Techniques.

    I know that if I execute the technique, the targets will fall...they have to because it's all based upon the Science of Kinesthetic Awareness and Optical Indexing (NOT Body Indexing ). Case in point:
    Wife is asleep so I have the audio turned down and couldn't hear any commentary but I didn't see anything in that video that couldn't be duplicated using sighted fire.

    This is coming from someone who is also a big fan of point shooting.

    I'm just saying...

    Jim

  8. #38
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by GentlemanJim View Post
    Wife is asleep so I have the audio turned down and couldn't hear any commentary but I didn't see anything in that video that couldn't be duplicated using sighted fire.

    This is coming from someone who is also a big fan of point shooting.

    I'm just saying...

    Jim
    Yes, you're absolutely right Jim...

    If you'd had the audio turned on you would have heard me say it was to show the superiority of the FIST-FIRE Grip and Indexing System. That and I really wanted to push the Point Shooting Envelope.

    To get those hits you have to have a perfect grip, perfect index, perfect presentation and a perfect trigger press each and every time.
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
    Tactical Shooting Academy & Custom Shop
    www.TacticalShooting.com

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