Point Shooting

This is a discussion on Point Shooting within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I figured I would start working on point shooting today at the range. It is public so I am rather limited in what I can ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array zeppelin03's Avatar
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    Point Shooting

    I figured I would start working on point shooting today at the range. It is public so I am rather limited in what I can do. I would hold it at a ready position then draw up and fire. The most I could probably do is leave the gun on the table then pick up and fire.

    Anyhow does anyone have any tips for point shooting? Really starting at nothing and would rather get some good input now before developing bad habits. I have a few courses tentatively planned, but I am on my own until spring. Any pointers or directions would be helpful. Even books or something.

    By the way, I was not sure if this is the right spot. Feel free to move this.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    This should get you started on one method of point shooting.

    http://www.specops.pl/vortal/downloa...ng_to_live.pdf
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  4. #3
    Member Array OldMick's Avatar
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    I do a few things to practice "point shooting". Not sure what you do/know/practice now, so thought it would be best to just describe some of the drills I use-

    Dry fire practice -

    1. From the high ready position extend arms fully (I use Isosceles stance). Check to see if sights are on target - make corrections. Practice until sights automatically fall on target when you quickly extend from high ready to extension.

    2. Trigger management - Now, as you extend, begin to press trigger and continue until arms are completely extended. Hammer should fall at the exact moment you reach full extension. Practice until hammer falls precisely at end of extension.

    3. I also practice fast extension with trigger finger along slide, then move to trigger when on target and ready to shoot, or abort shot and retract pistol to high ready.

    Range practice for point shooting -

    I practice 1-3 above and vary distance to target between 2-7 yards.

    Practice riding the reset. For dryfire, rack slide, press and hold trigger, now slowly release until you hear the "click" of trigger resetting. (unless you're shooting S/A handgun) I always ride the reset when firing, so whenever I shoot I'm practicing this skill. After a short time you will "feel" the trigger reset at you release it after the first shot. This gives you fast follow up shots and helps prevent "slapping" the trigger.

    Practice double tap (if range allows it) using reset.

    Combine double tap with exercise 2.

    Practice triple tap.

    Combine triple tap with exercise 2.

    Hope something here helps.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Remember to practice one handed firing. If the situation is really dire enough to require quick un aimed fire, you don't have time to use both hands.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Member Array kjsl105's Avatar
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    Agreed,

    If you have time to fully extend then you probably have time to acuire your sights (which should be your first choice). If you are in a position that demands point shooting it'll probably be one handed.
    "Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician."
    "The will to survive is not as important as the will to prevail ... the answer to criminal aggression is retaliation."

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppelin03 View Post
    I figured I would start working on point shooting today at the range. It is public so I am rather limited in what I can do. I would hold it at a ready position then draw up and fire. The most I could probably do is leave the gun on the table then pick up and fire.

    Anyhow does anyone have any tips for point shooting? Really starting at nothing and would rather get some good input now before developing bad habits. I have a few courses tentatively planned, but I am on my own until spring. Any pointers or directions would be helpful. Even books or something.

    By the way, I was not sure if this is the right spot. Feel free to move this.
    1st get a couple books:

    Bullseyes Don't shoot back by Applegate/Janich
    Point shooting progression by Phillips

    Then look to take a course or two ( Point Shooting, Force on Force) many companies offer them. Search. Research. Choose.

    Then try to find a private area that you can practice outside of a controlled range. Or join a force on force group. Here is one in your area if you choose to take a Suarez International course or two:

    Ohio SI Alumni

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    Member Array Archie's Avatar
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    One overlooked concept is by practicing aimed fire, one is conditioning one's self - developing 'muscle memory' if you please - the ability to point shoot.

    I find when point shooting, I appear to be using sighted fire, but in reality am looking over the top of the handgun.

    Also, the 'one handed' requirement due to need for speed only applies to the first shot or so. Follow that, enough time has passed to use a second hand in the process. For that matter, after one or at most two shots, one has enough time to get the handgun up to eye level and start watching sights. (Don't tell the experts, it'll just confuse them.)

    This is not to suggest there are factors which require one of your hands being involved in doing something other than shooting.

    One suggestion for practice on a public range that does not allow 'combat shooting'. Use either paper plates or old typing paper as targets. They are appropriate size for the purpose. Shoot only one shot per cycle. As you thought, bring the gun up from the table/bench and fire ONE shot. Then lower the pistol back down and assess. Frankly, it's the first shot that is most important; so fire a string of 'first shots'.
    Anyone Worth Shooting Is Worth Shooting Well
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    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
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    I have to point shoot due to vision issues, I really cannot see the sights well enough to use. While I have a Crimson Trace grip, I dry fire with a Laserlyte for practice and I use a BB gun use a BB gun for practice at homein the yard.
    I'd rather be lucky than good any day

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    New Member Array tweensy's Avatar
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    As the top trainer in the World (Kenny Hackathorn) says, "if you can't spit on him, don't try to point shoot him". 1 handed, below eye level point shooting cna't be relied upon to get chest hits, under lethal stress and without ear protection, in bad light, now, beyond 3-4 ft. The 2 handed, eye level point works well to about 10 ft.
    Mere "match stress" can be proven to make point shooters miss at more than 10 ft, if they are to hit faster than shooters using sighted fire,. That is, if you don't let the point shooters cheat, by getting their bodies all "set" (oriented) on the target. If you knew to do that, why not just have your gun aimed at the bad guy, hmm? :-) Make the shooters pivot to right and left as they draw (or raise the pistol from low ready) and move the target up and down (are you helpless on a hillside or a staircase) and they miss a lot beyond 10 ft, or they are no faster than those using sighted fire.

    If the hits are no faster, then why risk the misses that come with point shooting at ranges beyond 10 ft? Fortunately, it is very, very rare for the civilian defender to have to actually hit a bad guy beyond 10 ft, so point shooting should be most of your practice.

    I suggest that you first practice a lot with airsoft, at 1/2 c per shot, then .22's at 3-4c per shot, before wasting your money on centerfire ammo, and then by locally reloaded stuff, 1000 rds at a time, at the gun show.
    sgb and bsms like this.

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tweensy View Post
    As the top trainer in the World (Kenny Hackathorn) says, "if you can't spit on him, don't try to point shoot him". 1 handed, below eye level point shooting cna't be relied upon to get chest hits, under lethal stress and without ear protection, in bad light, now, beyond 3-4 ft. The 2 handed, eye level point works well to about 10 ft.
    If he really said that, I couldn't disagree more.... neither could guys like Jelly Brice, Col. Applegate, William Fairbain, Jim Gregg, Eric Sykes, and Bill Jordan.....
    mr.stuart likes this.

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    New Member Array tweensy's Avatar
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    we have not and cannot see those old hands PROVE their claims, in live competition, average of 5 tries or more, bud. They weren't timed, we don't know about all the point shooters who MISSED, cause they are dead. So a few guys got lucky a few times, so what? (and or lied about it a lot more times, as Cap Hardy told El Jefe that Ed McGivern did. With modern luminous sights, the only reason to point shoot is if it's FASTER to get the hits (reliably) than with aimed fire. That's very, very hard to do, beyond 10 ft, if you don't let the point shooters CHEAT, (by getting their bodies "set" in alignment with the target).

    Your argument falls into the logical error called' appeal to tradition", by the way.

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tweensy View Post
    we have not and cannot see those old hands PROVE their claims, in live competition, average of 5 tries or more, bud. They weren't timed, we don't know about all the point shooters who MISSED, cause they are dead. So a few guys got lucky a few times, so what? (and or lied about it a lot more times, as Cap Hardy told El Jefe that Ed McGivern did. With modern luminous sights, the only reason to point shoot is if it's FASTER to get the hits (reliably) than with aimed fire. That's very, very hard to do, beyond 10 ft, if you don't let the point shooters CHEAT, (by getting their bodies "set" in alignment with the target).

    Your argument falls into the logical error called' appeal to tradition", by the way.
    Lucky..... yeah lucky. Go do some force on force classes and try your close range two handed aim and get back to us. My arguement is solid and there are many people using these methods SUCCESSFULLY in the field.... just a month or so back someone on another forum successfully used it with a G19 when the perp already had the draw on him in columbia..... the perp is dead and the point shooter is alive and kicking. But what do we know right? Ken Hackathorn said it so it must be true.
    TVJ likes this.

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post


    WW2 fighter pilots knew close range and surprise won battles

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tweensy
    With modern luminous sights, the only reason to point shoot is if it's FASTER to get the hits (reliably) than with aimed fire. That's very, very hard to do, beyond 10 ft, if you don't let the point shooters CHEAT, (by getting their bodies "set" in alignment with the target).
    It would seem that you are unfamiliar with the point shooting transitional improvement from body index to nose index.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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