Evolution of Combat Pistol Technique

This is a discussion on Evolution of Combat Pistol Technique within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Classic shooting styles in review: The Reverse Weaver with my daughter C.J. demonstrating the technique. Notice the left elbow higher than the right (Photo courtesy ...

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Thread: Evolution of Combat Pistol Technique

  1. #46
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    Lightbulb Reverse Weaver

    Classic shooting styles in review:

    The Reverse Weaver with my daughter C.J. demonstrating the technique. Notice the left elbow higher than the right (Photo courtesy FIST-FIRE Book 2002):

    CJ in Reverse Weaver.jpg
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

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  3. #47
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    Lightbulb Reverse Chapman

    Classic shooting styles in review:

    The Reverse Chapman. This is me demonstrating. Notice right elbow bent, left elbow locked straight, left shoulder cap higher than right (Photo courtesy FIST-FIRE Book 2002):

    D.R. In Reverse Chapman.jpg
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
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  4. #48
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    This really makes me want to take some classes from you - I hope that in the next year or so, I can get out to "regional" locations.
    Here's a link to the latest class descriptions:

    Tactical Shooting Academy - Class Descriptions
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

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  5. #49
    Member Array rsilvers's Avatar
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    I saw the video and I read the description, but you say to "roll over" and "lock" your wrist without explaining what that means. That is not enough information as I can roll my wrist in many directions and I am not sure which direction I need to roll it.

    Which way do you roll it? How do you lock it?

    Do you mean tilt your wrist down so that your thump is not just parallel to but also collinear with your arm?

  6. #50
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    ^ I'm not DRM, but I hope he doesn't mind:

    Proper Grip & Recoil Managment

    Give that a try.
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  7. #51
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    I saw the video and I read the description, but you say to "roll over" and "lock" your wrist without explaining what that means. That is not enough information as I can roll my wrist in many directions and I am not sure which direction I need to roll it.
    Watch at about 2:20 into this video as I address your question (you'll need to have the sound on for best results):



    I'll explain in more detail on this when I have more time. Thanks for looking.
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
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  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    ^ I'm not DRM, but I hope he doesn't mind:

    Proper Grip & Recoil Managment

    Give that a try.
    Not at all, thanks Brother!
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
    Tactical Shooting Academy & Custom Shop
    www.TacticalShooting.com

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Y'all ever watched Jim Furyk hit a golfball? Well, DON'T. It's an ugly, disjointed, confusing thing...that has won the U.S. Open. My point is, there are many ways to do almost everything. Bottom line? Only HITS count.
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  10. #54
    Distinguished Member Array Hodad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    I delegate to the OFF HAND the brunt of the chore of recoil management. Recoil Control is all in the OFF HAND wrist lock. It's explained here:

    Looks to me like her right thumb is resting on or up against the slide. Not a good idea!!!

    It could be an optical illusion because of the angle of the camera shot.
    "Life is tough but it's really tough if you are stupid"

  11. #55
    Distinguished Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    While we are resurrecting old, yet still very relevant threads (proper grip), let us clarify some vocabulary.

    Off hand- shooting while standing, unsupported. Most pistol shooting is done from the offhand position.

    Support hand- the hand not pulling the trigger.
    Psalm 144:1

  12. #56
    Member Array Arete's Avatar
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    My own stance and grip aren't consistent. I'm not sure if this is a good thing, because it allows me to keep trying better techniques, or a bad thing, because I don't become expert in any one of them. Regardless, I think there is much in this thread to learn from.

    I'm always surprised by how often people still use the cup-and-saucer hold. Even back in the 1940s, when Fairbairn and Sykes wrote Shooting to Live, they recommended a wraparound grip when aimed fire was needed:

    Shooting to Live Two Handed.jpg

  13. #57
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    Thanks for posting DRM, good information
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  14. #58
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    Lightbulb

    Thumbs Forward Grip vs F.R.O.W.L.

    To clarify, just because someone has their thumbs facing forward does NOT mean they have achieved a Fully Rolled Over Wrist Lock (or F.R.O.W.L.). The FROWL is the ultimate form of recoil control.

    In the video below you can see how Fist-Fire Instructor Rick Simes controls the recoil on his Glock 19. The pistol is extremely flat:

    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
    Tactical Shooting Academy & Custom Shop
    www.TacticalShooting.com

  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Thanks for posting DRM, good information
    Thanks you're welcome...
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
    Tactical Shooting Academy & Custom Shop
    www.TacticalShooting.com

  16. #60
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    Lightbulb

    Whats the difference between a 'tendon lock' and you're FROWL??
    The Mod Iso guys use a "tendon lock" by squeezing the gun really hard with both hands, which freezes the wrists at some point in the rotation. Whereas we fully roll the wrist over until the bones in the wrist stop the forward rotation.

    Further we don't squeeze the grip with the off hand. We stiffen the off hand thumb and fingers forming a "cup" or a "hook". That's where the two walls come from that the gun runs into.

    One is for recoil control to stop the front strap from rolling forward (and also the muzzle from climbing up). The other wall (made by stiffening of the off hand thumb) is to counteract trigger torque from the firing hand.
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
    Tactical Shooting Academy & Custom Shop
    www.TacticalShooting.com

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