Shooting Under Stress

This is a discussion on Shooting Under Stress within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm a new shooter and planning to get my CHL soon so I really appreciate this thread (and forum in general). I definitely plan to ...

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Thread: Shooting Under Stress

  1. #31
    Member Array samefly's Avatar
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    I'm a new shooter and planning to get my CHL soon so I really appreciate this thread (and forum in general). I definitely plan to take courses past just the minimum to get a CHL. Shooting paper targets and having a real life situation (that happens in seconds) are definitely two drastically diiferent things. While I was trying to find more info on CHL and CHL training I came across this news story:



    part 2:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg

    ok so beyond the typical anti gun undertones, obvious lack of experience/judgement of the people in the story, and the fact that they chose people to give them the results they wanted (please let's not argue) I thought it made a good case on the importance of training. Overall I thought it raised some good points for new CHL/CCW holders.

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    It takes training. I heard they used 525,000 rounds for every confirmed kill in Iraq.

    Seriously.

  4. #33
    Member Array Magnum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    It takes training. I heard they used 525,000 rounds for every confirmed kill in Iraq.
    Seriously.
    Great training.

  5. #34
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    By chance I saw this thread and I want to tell you about my method.

    That's what I do in order to develop muscle memory with the shooting:
    • before I proceed to shoot, I loaded each muscle group in the hands of the gym until the pain
    • then I take the gun from a connected shooter training system and create a series of shots at the electronic target
    • analysis of the computer simulation time aiming and shooting, I see on that and in what time the I should pay attention next time


    The advantage of this method is that I can do it every day at home!
    On weekends I go to the shooting range and the coach has with live ammunition.
    Within two months of training my results exceed my expectations. As a result aiming time decreased and increased accuracy of fire.

    Here is a system with which I work USB shooter training system

  6. #35
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    Question

    Welcome aboard Doc, thanks for sharing.

    Everyone handles stress differently. There is a thread on here of a Grand Master of some shooting discipline who is also the owner/teacher of a defensive gun school who got into a shootout with 4 robbers and didn't hit any of them.
    And just who might this be that you’re referring to? Inquiring minds want to know…
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

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  7. #36
    Member Array NCW Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    Welcome aboard Doc, thanks for sharing.



    And just who might this be that you’re referring to? Inquiring minds want to know…
    Here's a link to the news article. Jewelry store owner exchanges gunfire with armed robbers in Naples
    Last edited by NCW Ray; January 19th, 2012 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Changed the link to the news article itself.

  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array Elk Hunter's Avatar
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    competition can create some good stress. Dry practice building muscle memory helps performance under stress

  9. #38
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    Here's a link to the news article. Jewelry store owner exchanges gunfire with armed robbers in Naples
    Thanks for the link. Man, that was wrong on so many levels...
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
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  10. #39
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    This is a great thread. Thanks DocPMD for posting it. You have the correct attitude towards your approach to defensive shooting. And you are honest about your performance and skill sets. Don't get discouraged. Carrying a gun for defensive purpose is a commitment. It often becomes a serious lifestyle change, as it should.

    Thanks Peyton for your excellent insight and professional experience. Spot on!

    Lot's of excellent responses from others in this thread. A couple of things I'll add. One is that public ranges (especially indoor ranges) limit you so much in acquiring training in realistic defensive technique. They are for static target practice and for liability purposes their range rules are very restrictive and in direct conflict with doing much realistic defensive training. No quick draws from concealment, no rapid fire, etc. etc. They have their place and purpose, but nothing beats being able to shoot on someone's private property. I live in a rural area and there are a lot of places I go for the ability to perform realistic training.

    Shooting on private property, whether your own, or a good friend's requires a serious and committed protocol and some added expense. First, there won't be a range safety officer around to oversee the shooters. So, you are on your own to have the discipline for safe shooting practices. You have to have a solid back stop and know where you are shooting. You don't want errant rounds endangering others or other peoples property. Major party foul for shooting other peoples livestock which may be in the vicinity. You also have the expense of creating, making or purchasing your own targets, target stands and or steel targets. But nothing beats having the ability to shoot on private property over the restrictions of a public shooting range.

    Another thing in regards to what Peyton stressed in his excellent post is regarding the physiological and psychological phenomenon you will likely experience when faced with a lethal threat and you shoot to save your life. Massad Ayoob is an authority in this realm of defensive shooting. I highly recommend his excellent and authoritative video Physio-Psychological Aspects of Violent Encounters. It comes straight out of his 40 hour MAG-40 / LFI-1 course.
    This updated two-hour video exceeds both length and subject coverage of the older tapes, Part 1 (1983) and Part II (1986). Learn the dynamics of tachypsychia, tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, cognitive dissonance, amaurosis fugax, denial response and other things that can affect you during or after a fight or a shooting. A must for homicide investigators! 120 min.
    These are physiological effects the body experiences which you have no control over. But you need to know and understand these effects in order to deal with them and overcome them. It's best to know this stuff before you experience it for real at "the moment of truth." As he defines and explains each effect, he offers real life examples where each phenomenon has effected people during actual shooting events.

    This is where the old adage comes in "You don't know, what you don't know!" where unless you've been exposed to or presented with something, you have no idea you've been lacking the knowledge which is critical to know. This video is a real eye opener and you'll be amazed at what you learn about how the body works under stress when you are in "Full Body Alarm" mode.

    The last thing I'll say is to post this YouTube video which speaks volumes on having the proper "Survival Mindset!" The video speaks for itself.

    Interview with Lance Thomas on Justice Files


    Stay Armed, and Stay Safe!
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  11. #40
    Member Array Simonsay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCW Ray View Post
    Wow. A GM with a 5 shot, taking on 4+. Too good to be true.

  12. #41
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Hey y'all: I did not read all replies so I apologize if I am saying something that has been said or is not on target with the discussion. Stress, practice, practice--these seem to be the main buzzwords on this and other threads. Outside of LEOs and military, who, by definition are always in dangerous situations--that is why they are there--- the rest of us are not in that same situation. Before we think about stress and practice, practice, we should be thinking about the precursor to a "situation"--that precursor is situational awareness. If we pay attention to where we go, when we go, how we go. what is around us etc etc, we can avoid probably any and all "situations" that bring about stress and the need for practice, practice to avoid stress-related problems with your firearm and your defense. Sure there are what ifs but, IMO, if we do not get ourselves in a situation, there will not be a situation. Leaving aside my comments, which some may find pretentious or silly, I recently purchased an FN5.7X28, which is lightweight for a full size, lo recoil, lethal and 21 round capacity; I purchased same to minimize some of the problems relating to stress inaccuracies (lo recoil w/high capacity should be helpful). Yes I practice but I spend more time being aware of what I am doing and where and when I am doing it. Just a different take that I hope lends a little to the discussion.

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array ks kid's Avatar
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    This thread should become a sticky and be required reading for all new CCW/H. Doc, thanks for starting it, I have been carrying for a few years and had forgot about all the things that ran thru my mind when I started. I spoke to many local LEO's for insight and started training. I do at a min 40hrs a year with an instructor to include FOF training. You are on the right track and asking the right questions.

    Doc, are you a fly fisherman?

    Stay Safe.

  14. #43
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Lindsay View Post
    Another tool to use is force on force with air soft guns. Nothing like going against another thinking moving human. The first couple of times you come out with AHAA moments and a bunch air soft hickeys
    Bill is correct on the FoF drills.

    If you think your missing the stationary target was bad, imagine it in poor light, bad weather, and both you and the BG moving. Common elements in real fights.
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  15. #44
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    ks kid, no I don't fly fish,but I do have all the gear. That's too long of a story for this thread.

    It's ironic that this thread got revived now because I'm taking my second class this week. It's a two-night tactical pistol class. I'm looking forward to it, but I'm already nervous. LOL

    Since the first class that prompted this thread my target shooting has steadily improved. I have adopted the grip suggested by DRM in his Fist Fire DVDs. I was at the range yesterday and could get ten successive shots within a three inch diameter bullseye at seven yards when I was deliberate in shooting. When I was trying to shoot quickly by bringing the gun from retention to site alignment my precision dropped significantly. I could keep all the shots on target but I had a tendency to jerk and bring the shots low. But at least all the shots typically hit the paper.

    I'll report back at the end of the week after I go through the trauma of the class!

    Doc
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  16. #45
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    Great post...after searching around for awhile I found out about Magpul Dynamics. With all the experience Chris Costa and Travis Haley have about fighting under stress, whatever they say and teach is pretty much law to me. I have a couple of their dvds, Art of the Dynamic Handgun and Shotgun. They are 50 bucks a pop but they are over 7 hours of educational video, IMO I think it's worth the price. You've probably already heard of them but I figuered by an off chance you didn't Id drop their names so you could do a little research of your own. I owe my whole training routine to them.
    Bark'n likes this.
    "When that gun comes out of that holster; it's business time." -Chris Costa

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