This is a discussion on Proper Grip & Recoil Managment within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I know a guy in Alaska who has a short barreled .500 S&W Revolver for a carry gun. I had to caution him about it. ...
Last edited by DRM; December 5th, 2011 at 11:13 AM.
I just got my G22 on the range this past Saturday. A police officer and range officer identified one of my problem (among a few) as my grip. I have small hands and am practicing this grip so the next time I'm on the range I can try it and see if it improves my shooting.
A man, without force, is without the essential dignity of humanity. Human nature is so constituted, that it cannot honor a helpless man, although it can pity him; and even this it cannot do long, if the signs of power do not arise.
Well, it's taken 12 years for it to catch on, but I’m glad it is:
Thumbs-Forward Handgun Grip | Shooting Illustrated
Different strokes for different folks.
There's a lot of different techniques out there - valid, well-reasoned/logical and proven techniques. There's a lot of seasoned and highly-regarded trainers out there: guys and girls who bring with them anything from competition shooting championships to hard-won battlefield/law-enforcement or other real-world experiences.
To me, there's not really any right or wrong (well, I'll take that back: there can be something that REALLY wrong, but that's not what we're talking about, here; here, we're splitting hairs between well-qualified instructors and variations upon different proven techniques) - the fundamentals are all essentially the same, and as for the more advanced techniques, as long as the end-user understands how and where to properly apply them, it should lead to winning, be it on a competition course or in the fight of your life.
I think what's important that we strive to continually be open to learning something new. I know that for myself, as a beginner, this is at the same time both very easy (just let it all in!) as well as very hard (information overload as well as trying to filter out what is actually "good" information) - but no matter what, it's important to keep on learning, because it's all tools-in-the-tool-chest.
I have yet to purchase DRM's DVDs, but they are honestly on my holiday shopping list for myself. While I did not come by this technique as a result of DRM's videos and teachings, I was taught by other qualified instructors the same - nevertheless, DRM's presentation into the whys and hows is definitely the best I've heard/seen so far. For me, this technique - specifically, the lock-out of the support/reaction wrist and arm as well as getting the base of that hand/lower fingers cammed against the grip frame to leverage against recoil's "filp" - works wonders in controlling the recoil of the pistol when I'm putting successive rounds downrange in a rapid-fire manner: as long as my first shot is on-target (and there's no reason it shouldn't be! ), follow-up shots are all but guaranteed to be inside of 6-inches at 7 to 10 yards, be it just a quick double-tap or if I'm dumping 19+1.
Can I use this full technique on all of my pistols? Unfortunately, no.
But it is my go-to when I can. It's a tool that I can pull out of my tool-chest.
Edit that - I just made the purchase of the DVDs.
I tried this grip yesterday. It was just a "meh" kind of day at the range overall, but I could see this grip working once I use it more and train myself to use it consistently. I feel like I MUST lock my left elbow to get the most use out of it. If I don't lock my elbow, the I feel discomfort in my wrist. Not sure if that's normal. Do I need to keep both elbows locked? Or just the left elbow? Does it matter? The only problem I came across with this grip was it interfered with the slide lock on my USP, since the slide lock is pretty huge on the HK. The second knuckle, just above the fleshy part of my thumb/palm rests right on the slide lock. So it was hit or miss whether the last round would lock the slide open or not. This didn't affect my other pistols. The HK's slide lock is rather large.
I'll have to work with it more. I'd like to see myself using this much more consistently.
You need to watch the video again, then ask yourself that question…. Do I need to keep both elbows locked?
Coaching Note: You don't have to pull back with the bicep (like with the Weaver 'push-pull' isometric). The off hand shoulder muscles do the work of pulling the wrist lock rearwards. Shoulders UP & BACK. A lot of folks miss this.
Last edited by DRM; December 9th, 2011 at 08:28 AM. Reason: Too much information...
Hahahaha, nice. I Love my USP. It shoots great. But the one thing I don't like is that slide lock lever. I can work past it, as this problem only occurred once, but I have to slightly adjust my hand so it's under the lever not resting on top of it.... Doesn't do well for consistency. I didn't have any problems with my Glocks, as their slide lock levers are perfect, IMO (once broken in that is, they can be a PAIN when they're new!). Have yet to try the 1911, but the slide lock lever won't be a problem.
I'll have to pay more attention to the vid this time. :)
^ Yep, not everything works, with every gun, with every shooter.
I needed to differ from my usual grip for a bit, on my friend's Nastoff race-gun (amazing that something that's 20 years old or so can run that well!).
As for different shooters? We're all different people. What works for my anatomy may be less comfortable - or even totally impossible - for you to achieve.
This is why I like to get as much good instruction as I can - so that I can find what works for me.
I received your DVD's yesterday and watched and listened carefully because the shoulder position was something that I was particularly interested in. When I watch your wife demo the technique(s) I would agree that her off-hand shoulder is indeed "up". But, it looks to me like her shoulders are rolled forward, not back.
Similar grip to this by Magpul Dynamics
If you wish for peace, prepare for war.
Last edited by DRM; December 10th, 2011 at 10:06 AM.
Ok I am always up for a new video where and how do I order and can you ship to an APO,FPO,DPO?
"A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013
It's been many years since I first started using and teaching this. A few things have had a revelating impact on my shooting abilities. Fist Fire's roll-over wrist lock and thumbs forward is one of them.
It's an essential grip to get the edge in recoil control and follow up shots.
Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.