Proper Grip & Recoil Managment

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The whole FIST-FIRE explosions, limousines, matrix style look just reeks of the "Extreme Shok" hyped up marketing style that usually under performs...

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Welcome to the forums...:smile:

They tell me what sells a bottle of wine is the label. So, here's a little background information about the cover:

At the time (back about 10 years ago) my friend Mike Noell, former Navy Seal and President/Founder of Blackhawk Products, offered to have his graphics department do the covers for me, gratis. My book was entitled:

“FIST-FIRE: Defensive Speed Shooting Techniques for Self Defense, Executive Protection & Concealed Carry”

That said, I did not see anything at all wrong with the limo, explosions, flames or gun play. And if you'll notice, the lovely lady shooter is shown (3) times in (3) different shooting positions. These (3) shooting positions are the foundations of the entire FIST-FIRE System:

The Guard: This is the first level of weapons presentation used in the FIST-FIRE System. It's a retention shooting position designed to guard the gun from disarms and to deliver COM hits from a compressed ready position on demand and under stress.

Attachment 58385

Partial Extension: This is the second level of weapons presentation in the FIST-FIRE System. It's called the “Reverse Weaver” shooting position where the gun can be used very effectively at partial extension for “Point Shooting” by looking over the sights. It can also be used with the sights simply by raising the gun up and into the line of sight. Many Top Shooters have adopted this shooting style.

Attachment 58386

Full Extension: This is the third level of weapons presentation which is the Surgical Speed Shooting position designed for maximum accuracy at maximum speed.

Attachment 58387

Photos taken from the FIST-FIRE® Book Copyright © 2002 All Rights Reserved

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Originally Posted by DRM

“It’s not us against each other, it’s us against the hoards!” :yup:

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"hordes"?

Hi all! I tried DRM's two-handed technique today at the range and it worked well. I was firing a .45 acp Commander and it worked well for recoil control; accuracy was good as well.

I have run a couple courses through Tactical Defense Institute since this thread was first posted, and the grip they teach there is virtually identical to this one. As they impart it, about 40% of the grip pressure is exerted by the strong hand, while about 60% is exerted by the support hand. They teach a bit more of a forward aggressive isosceles stance than shown in the video in conjunction with it. At first, I did not care much for the grip or the stance, but after working with it for awhile, my accuracy with both the initial shot and follow-ups has increased markedly. Good stuff, hence a bump back to the top.

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Originally Posted by Mike1956

I have run a couple courses through Tactical Defense Institute since this thread was first posted, and the grip they teach there is virtually identical to this one. As they impart it, about 40% of the grip pressure is exerted by the strong hand, while about 60% is exerted by the support hand. They teach a bit more of a forward aggressive isosceles stance than shown in the video in conjunction with it. At first, I did not care much for the grip or the stance, but after working with it for awhile, my accuracy with both the initial shot and follow-ups has increased markedly. Good stuff, hence a bump back to the top.

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Interesting, so 40 and 60 percent. Im not busting you out, but when SHTF I think 100 and 100 percent work better. I really do not believe anyone can tell 40% or 60% of pressure. I have seen it taught, I call crap on it.....

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Originally Posted by Harryball

Interesting, so 40 and 60 percent. Im not busting you out, but when SHTF I think 100 and 100 percent work better. I really do not believe anyone can tell 40% or 60% of pressure. I have seen it taught, I call crap on it.....

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Repeat an exercise often enough, and it becomes relegated to muscle memory. Notice the use of the word "about". Clinching the pistol as tightly as one can with both hands doesn't, based on my own experience with handgun shooting, strike me as better for anything except fighting to maintain possession of one's firearm.

Whether it's 60/40 for you (more like 70/30 for me) it's hard to measure. I just had some real studs here and it took me a couple of days to get them to relax the strong hand grip. But once they did they just couldn't believe it. Holding the gun and relaxing the shooting grip improved their hits and trigger speed, and the gun was just as flat as when using their Death Grip. :yup:

So, I try to get them to focus harder on the off hand and freeze that off hand wrist lock and cup (hook) the front strap, and just relax the shooting hand more. You really only need enough resistance to put the gun up against the "Wall" of the off hand wrist lock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTimmLK9npY

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Originally Posted by Mike1956

Repeat an exercise often enough, and it becomes relegated to muscle memory. Notice the use of the word "about". Clinching the pistol as tightly as one can with both hands doesn't, based on my own experience with handgun shooting, strike me as better for anything except fighting to maintain possession of one's firearm.

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So what is your measurement tool. How do you know when your at 40 percent? Skip to 1:57, then tell me what you use under stress....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVhTA-n0ivE

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Originally Posted by Harryball

So what is your measurement tool. How do you know when your at 40 percent? Skip to 1:57, then tell me what you use under stress....

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For the third time, "about". No, I can't discern exactly, and I don't have to. The support hand is exerting noticeably more pressure on the grip than the shooting hand. Travis is happy with his results with equal pressure, and that is what he teaches.

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Originally Posted by Mike1956

For the third time, "about". No, I can't discern exactly, and I don't have to. The support hand is exerting noticeably more pressure on the grip than the shooting hand. Travis is happy with his results with equal pressure, and that is what he teaches.

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And you still havent answered my question. You train a certain way, saying that you use the 60/40. And yet you have no measurements and have no idea how you will react under pressure. Wouldnt you think you should train to what your body will do under pressure? Like I have said for the 2nd time.....

I cannot absolutely discern - and I know, for a matter of fact, that when stressed, I'm 100/100 convulsive: and that does lead to some inherent inaccuracies.

Inaccuracies that may not be apparent or even matter at closer ranges (we're talking within 15 yards, at my current skill-level).

But it does come into play when I'm farther out.

So, how do I reconcile the two?

I think that if I'm closer, the fight/flight response will weigh-in heavier. The convulsive grip is probably what I will wind up with, no matter what.

But I think that at farther distances, I will realize that I am unable to make the shot without seeing the front sight, that I will break out of my reptile-brain moment, and that I will, given the time/opportunity, settle in let training take over, and use techniques which I've learned that will allow for a more accurate shot.

Remember Pacino's character taking that small pause before making that critical shot, in Heat to rescue that little girl?

More and more, I'm thinking that's actually realistic. Haley actually says the same thing about his "brain switching over," when he realizes that he needs to take a more accurate shot: that he'll take a cleansing breath, that he'll get focus on the front sight and work his trigger press.

Hopefully, I'll never find out, first-hand, if that's true.

But I'm training towards that end. :smile:

Where ya been DRM? I've been using this for 10 years in USPSA an IDPA.

An to the guy who needs practice to become qualified with rawing, but cant at his range? Dry fire.

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Originally Posted by Harryball

And you still havent answered my question. You train a certain way, saying that you use the 60/40. And yet you have no measurements and have no idea how you will react under pressure. Wouldnt you think you should train to what your body will do under pressure? Like I have said for the 2nd time.....

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You have confused not answering your question with rendering an answer you aren't satisfied with. If I train thoroughly enough, often enough, that IS how my body will respond under pressure.

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Originally Posted by Mike1956

You have confused not answering your question with rendering an answer you aren't satisfied with. If I train thoroughly enough, often enough, that IS how my body will respond under pressure.

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LOL not quite, but fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Harryball

LOL not quite, but fair enough.

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Fair enough.