Proper Grip & Recoil Managment - Page 9

Proper Grip & Recoil Managment

This is a discussion on Proper Grip & Recoil Managment within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; How important is placing the thumb of the support hand on the frame of the handgun? Does it matter if I have the thumb forward ...

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Thread: Proper Grip & Recoil Managment

  1. #121
    New Member Array mumford's Avatar
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    support thumb on frame of handgun

    How important is placing the thumb of the support hand on the frame of the handgun? Does it matter if I have the thumb forward parallel to the frame but not touching it?

    How much force, if any, should the thumb be added onto the frame? I was trying out your grip earlier today on a STI 2011 wide frame pistol, and the support thumb keeps sliding off the frame.


  2. #122
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    ^ I'm not DRM, so I'm not going to speak for him.

    But here's something to ponder, while you wait for his response:

    The Combat Grip

    I posted this link before, and as I'd cited previously, you can see how these top shooters differ in their takes.

  3. #123
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    Lightbulb

    How important is placing the thumb of the support hand on the frame of the handgun?
    It's VERY important as it creates a “WALL” for the gun to torque into as you work the trigger. Shots going LEFT (for a right hander) means trigger torque is working to move the muzzle left.

    Does it matter if I have the thumb forward parallel to the frame but not touching it?
    The off hand thumb should make light contact with the dust cover, but IT SHOULD NOT PUSH AGAINST IT. We want to create a “WALL” by stiffening the off hand thumb.

    Likewise, by “cupping” with the off hand (NOT SQUEEZING, just HOOK and CUP) we create a wall for the front strap to run into. You must push the gun into the off hand for this to work, and just stiffen or “freeze” the fingers.

    How much force, if any, should the thumb be added onto the frame?
    VERY little…

    If you push against it will slide down and off. But if we point with the thumb and stiffen it, it will stay in place.
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  4. #124
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    But “IF” the slide lock/release lever doesn’t work reliably 100% of the time, you’ll screw the pooch on the reload (sooner or later, trust me, been there, seen it, done it). That’s why the over hand rack always works, 100% of the time, albeit slower. And so does my Practical Reload.
    This is a very good point to get across. The over hand rack does work all the time. IMO thats what makes it better for SD training. Most of our newer shooters need to have this reinforced. The slide lock/release is faster, no doubt, but when your life is on the line we should be using something that is 100%...Nice post D.R....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    This is a very good point to get across. The over hand rack does work all the time. IMO thats what makes it better for SD training. Most of our newer shooters need to have this reinforced. The slide lock/release is faster, no doubt, but when your life is on the line we should be using something that is 100%...Nice post D.R....
    This point was drilled into us at TDI.
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  6. #126
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    I know this is REALLY short notice, but due to hurricane Sandy I now have openings Nov. 3-4 (Fist-Fire Pistol Level 1). Weather will be 55-60 degrees with ZERO chance of rain, FINALLY!.
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
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  7. #127
    Senior Member Array mwhartman's Avatar
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    I started this journey a little over a year ago. Learning how to shoot well has been a challenge. I went to the range last week and had a dismal outing. Since then, I've been searching Youtube and the internet looking for help.

    I was delighted when I found this thread. It is very similar to one I found a few days ago by Paul Gomez.

    DRM, if I understand correctly, your method does not have any part of the support hand behind the grip. Is that correct? I ask because in the Gomez video (2:07) he mentions that the method he is demonstrating "has the back of the hand slightly behind the back of the gun" for recoil. Then, at 2:45, Gomez says he is "sacrificing some coverage of the grip"

    I need all of the help I can get, so how different is his method from yours?





    PS

    If you were a little closer I would take one of your stops this weekend :)

    Mike
    Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144

    Ruger owners check our sister forum http://rugerpistolforums.com a great site to share and learn about your Ruger pistols.

  8. #128
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    Lightbulb

    I need all of the help I can get, so how different is his method from yours?
    Paul and I have a bit of a history (God rest his soul)…

    A little over a decade ago, Paul was a skeptic (even a critic) of what I was pioneering, namely my system of shooting called FIST-FIRE, built on the foundation of grip and index.

    At first we were at odds, but then, over the years he became an advocate of what I was doing and teaching. He actually stood up for me on the Internet, in classes and at the seminars.

    He was a very close friend of South Narc (who needs no introduction) and he worked closely with one of my shooting protégés, Paul Sharp, who is one of the best FIST-FIRE Instructors I have today.

    Over the past couple of years, Paul and I finally began to work together, communicating and comparing notes. I was very happy about this, but then, I was kind of disappointed when he didn’t get back to me like he said he would. Then, I found out that he had passed…

    Needless to say, he left this world too soon. But I am VERY proud to say that we were friends in the end, and that I got to play a very small part in the Trust Fund created for his children, sponsored by the community over at TPI.

    Now, I know I haven’t really answered your question as of yet…

    This is because I felt I needed to build a foundation for what I am going to say, so that it doesn’t come off wrong:

    The grip that Paul teaches is textbook FIST-FIRE that he learned from me and Paul Sharp.

    For more information, visit South Narcs T.P.I. forums ( www.TotalProtectionInteractive.com ).

    Note: You have to register to view the forums. Paul would like it if you did. He’s the one who prodded South Narc to hang out his shingle and he helped start the forums there.

    Very respectfully,

    D.R.
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  9. #129
    Senior Member Array mwhartman's Avatar
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    Thanks for the clarification and link to TPI, DRM.


    I'm sure that I would benefit greatly from attending your classes. However, the 6 hour drive is a consideration. My question, would I get sufficient benefit from your fist-fire video then save and try to attend a session next Spring?

    Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

    Mike
    Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144

    Ruger owners check our sister forum http://rugerpistolforums.com a great site to share and learn about your Ruger pistols.

  10. #130
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    Lightbulb

    Thanks for asking...

    Yes, I find that the guys that study the DVD’s are WAY ahead of the power curve in class, compared to the ones that haven’t.

    The DVD's are almost 3 hours long. We actually teach off them. Some of the material that’s on them was filmed during some actual classes.

    Stay safe,

    D.R.

    Here's a link to the online store:

    Tactical Shooting Academy - Tactical Shooting Store
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
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  11. #131
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    Lightbulb

    DRM, if I understand correctly, your method does not have any part of the support hand behind the grip. Is that correct? I ask because in the Gomez video (2:07) he mentions that the method he is demonstrating "has the back of the hand slightly behind the back of the gun" for recoil.
    He was demonstrating the Mod Iso at that point. He showed his/our grip at the end.

    I have no part my off hand behind the gun. No need, as explained here:

    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
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    www.TacticalShooting.com

  12. #132
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    Re: Proper Grip & Recoil Managment

    Great video I've watched it over an over a few times, now to practice it

  13. #133
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    Thumbs up

    DRM, someone at the local gun shop said you were going to run a Holiday special or something?
    Yes, right now you can get Gift Certificates for 20% OFF.

    They are good for Firearms Training and/or Custom Gunsmithing. Here's a link:


    Tactical Shooting Academy - Tactical Shooting Store
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
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    www.TacticalShooting.com

  14. #134
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    Lightbulb My slide won't lock back on last shot!

    DR, my slide won’t always lock back on my G17 when I use your grip. I have big hands and I use the stock slide release. What slide release do you recommend?
    Here’s what I have been doing lately. I call it the SRM (Slide Release Mod). I’ve eliminated the slide release function totally, yet you can still manually lock it open manually because of the scalloped out area.

    I have yet to have a Glock NOT lock back on the last shot. And you can still manually lock it back on an empty gun if you want to because of the scalloped out area for your thumb.

    SRM (SLIDE RELEASE MOD) 2.jpg
    Last edited by DRM; February 21st, 2013 at 06:08 PM.
    N.M. Edmands likes this.
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    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
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  15. #135
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    I now have openings for Fist-Fire Level 1 Oct. 8-10, 2013 on my home range near Williamsburg VA.

    Tuition is based on my Group Rate fee of $150 per person, per day.

    Here's a link to my Class Descriptions:

    Tactical Shooting Academy - Class Descriptions
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
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    www.TacticalShooting.com

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