Firing from the Hip?

This is a discussion on Firing from the Hip? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm a big believer in shooting from retention (#2 position draw stroke) versus shooting from the hip. A few things I notice in many shooting ...

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Thread: Firing from the Hip?

  1. #31
    AOK
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    I'm a big believer in shooting from retention (#2 position draw stroke) versus shooting from the hip.

    A few things I notice in many shooting from the hip video's in close quarter situations (including many in this thread)....
    1. Most guns are extended out in from of their body. Not good if someone is within a couple steps of grabbing the gun.
    2. Most shooters have a squared stance which is bad for two reasons. Again, easier for assailant to to grab the gun as well as you are likely taking a dive on your back if an assailant wraps you up while charging you.
    3. Most shooters are not making any use of their off-hand while training for those "bad breath" fights.

    While I'm not saying shooting from the hip is bad, it's just not for me. I see no benefits from it in a close quarter situation versus shooting from retention. It's worse from a retention perspective (which is a bad thing in a close quarter situation with someone trying to get your gun), balance is often poor in the event of physical contact, and it is not any quicker than shooting from retention (for me anyways).

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Las Vegan View Post
    Was I the only one watching that, thinking "Move, d@mmit, GOTX!"?
    I personally trained Mike in that method at the NY/NJ Port Authority police academy in 2006.
    Yes, of course one would move, but first one should learn the technique.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    I'm a big believer in shooting from retention (#2 position draw stroke) versus shooting from the hip.

    A few things I notice in many shooting from the hip video's in close quarter situations (including many in this thread)....
    1. Most guns are extended out in from of their body. Not good if someone is within a couple steps of grabbing the gun.
    2. Most shooters have a squared stance which is bad for two reasons. Again, easier for assailant to to grab the gun as well as you are likely taking a dive on your back if an assailant wraps you up while charging you.
    3. Most shooters are not making any use of their off-hand while training for those "bad breath" fights.

    While I'm not saying shooting from the hip is bad, it's just not for me. I see no benefits from it in a close quarter situation versus shooting from retention. It's worse from a retention perspective (which is a bad thing in a close quarter situation with someone trying to get your gun), balance is often poor in the event of physical contact, and it is not any quicker than shooting from retention (for me anyways).
    Hip shooting is just one method of close combat training.
    One should also learn some type of retention shooting if the distance is closer than 3-5 feet.
    I am not a big fan of the #2--and I learned it personally from Southnarc.
    For one thing it does not work well for a lefty.
    It also--IMHO--places the muzzle too close to ones body, and causes the shots to go low.
    I prefer the slightly different position of placing the base of the magazine against one's ribcage with the pistol rotated 90 degrees down.
    It also has the advantage of putting the bullets where one's eyes are focused.
    This is what is taught to the NYPD, Ohio Peace Officer Academy and the Swedish police, amongst other agencies, so it does have a proven track record.

  5. #34
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    I should have been more detailed in my post above.....wasn't fully awake

    we do a 4 step draw: 1)achieve grip/break retention, 2)draw up, getting pistol high, 3)hands come together at center line of body, 4)punch out getting sight alignment
    we practice shooting from 2, 3, and 4, also from anchor position, much like described by Matthew except its keeping your wrist on the rib cage to aid in not getting gun too far out and its stable against the body, and lastly the greg position (2 hands, holding at center of chest)
    this incorporates shooting just after clearing holster and at step 3 and then at full stance so rounds are getting on target asap
    when at bad breath distance use of off hand is highly recommended and moving to keep your gun away from BG's grasp is a must
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  6. #35
    AOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Temkin View Post
    Hip shooting is just one method of close combat training.
    One should also learn some type of retention shooting if the distance is closer than 3-5 feet.
    I agree.


    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Temkin View Post
    I am not a big fan of the #2--and I learned it personally from Southnarc.
    For one thing it does not work well for a lefty.
    Just curious how is it different for a lefty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Temkin View Post
    It also--IMHO--places the muzzle too close to ones body, and causes the shots to go low.
    When you are close enough to make physical contact yes they do go into the lower torso. When making physcial contact with an assailant I am much more comfortable dumping rounds into their lower abdomen/pelvis than middle torso when snapping out strikes or steam rolling them to maintain distance. However, as I am able to create a little more distance between me and the assailant I am am able to stand more erect (the muzzle rises) and as a result I am able to naturally place shots into the middle to upper torso with the gun in the same position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Temkin View Post
    I prefer the slightly different position of placing the base of the magazine against one's ribcage with the pistol rotated 90 degrees down.
    It also has the advantage of putting the bullets where one's eyes are focused.
    This is what is taught to the NYPD, Ohio Peace Officer Academy and the Swedish police, amongst other agencies, so it does have a proven track record.


    Are you refering to the firearm basically rotated 90 degrees away from the body? If so, I am familiar with it from a couple FOF classes. I've seen numerous others prefer this over the #2 position. To each his own.
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  7. #36
    Senior Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    Just curious how is it different for a lefty?

    I have seen the #2 cause malfunctions in semi autos when done lefty
    Which is why I prefer the magazine pressed into the ribcage method.
    It is also very efficient if one is wearing tac gear.
    I should also mention that when shooting revolvers ( pardon my age, but at nearly 60 years old I am a creature of habit.)
    I find the #2 to cause hot gases from the cylinder to burn my chest.

    Are you referring to the firearm basically rotated 90 degrees away from the body? If so, I am familiar with it from a couple FOF classes. I've seen numerous others prefer this over the #2 position.


    Yes--see above why I find it safer than the #2


    When you are close enough to make physical contact yes they do go into the lower torso


    I was taught to keep track of your gun and his body ( in a grappling situation) by striking him with the muzzle before shooting.
    Naturally with a semi you must pull slightly back before shooting to avoid going out of battery.
    Although this old school method is no longer popular, failure to utilize this technique will increase the odds of a self inflicted wound.
    It also places the bullets dead on.


    "To each his own."

    True enough.

  8. #37
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    In my opinion, any institution that is teaching an extreme close quarters class should be teaching shooting form retention/from the hip/whatever you want to call it.

    It is very unlikely that you are going to get your firearm up and into view if you are in an extremely close and deadly encounter (if you are able to get to your firearm at all (let's be realistic here)).

  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    I think one needs to be able to make hits from elbow up/elbow down (top of the holster) to full extension and full sight picture. (Any where in the draw stroke.) It all depends on the need for the speed of the hit and the distance to the target. Distance and speed these hits can be made will depend on the shooter and his/her shooting ability. That comes with the correct training on how to do it right and then lots of practice on the range, standing in front of a target making the hits.
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  10. #39
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    Lightbulb

    I prefer the slightly different position of placing the base of the magazine against one's ribcage with the pistol rotated 90 degrees down.
    It’s called the "Speed Rock". I have seen actual police video of a cop using it on a traffic stop when the BG pulled a knife. They were "Face to Face" and the bullet missed the BG. It was executed nicely, clearly he had been taught how to do this, but it failed.

    In our FoF studies we found the Speed Rock to be an option, but not the correct answer. Shooting low (as South Narc teaches) from high retention is absolutely correct for many reasons.

    Likewise hip shooting is just one option as well...
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  11. #40
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    See I missed another thread on PS, to the OP, it is a viable system/style to learn it is proved in combat and on the streets here in the Ole U.S.A. Just remember its not the end all to be all, sights are just as useful and need to be learned and used, several mentioned here can instruct you in the better points of it. Its JMO, but I do know a thing or two about .

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    Its JMO, but I do know a thing or two about .

    That is the under statement of the year.
    How have you been, old friend?

    PS--correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the speed rock when you have your pistol at hip level and bend your body backwards to get chest high hits?

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonymsga View Post
    I swear firearms are just like toys to some people. Yeah they are cool and i love them as a serious defense but would you train to fire a nail gun from the hip as well. Its dangerous. Go jump out of a plane or go to bush gardens for a kick!

    You keep training to fire from the hip and ill keep gettin great business for body armor lol
    Mmmkay...
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  14. #43
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    We all know what we know, nothing more nothing less. To each his/her own and we will all live with it.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  15. #44
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    Brownies class teaches a fast scoop draw, elbow up and elbow down - BANG. Like my brother Hitch King noted above, this is the close quarter hit. A must practise. You will be amazed at how well you shoot this outto 5 yards. Quick or dead. I practise this every time Igo to my club from concealed position. Scoop draw takes practise. Use an airsoft at home

  16. #45
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    The speed rock is a good thing to know. I work on it every now and again. I think it gets the name from the fast draw coupled with the shooter rocking back at the waist to raise the muzzle toward the vitals.

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