Some Thoughts on Reloading the Pistol

Some Thoughts on Reloading the Pistol

This is a discussion on Some Thoughts on Reloading the Pistol within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What follows are some of my thoughts on reloading the pistol. Hope you folks find them worthwhile. The first thing to address is where to ...

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Thread: Some Thoughts on Reloading the Pistol

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    August 19, 1970 - June 2012
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    Some Thoughts on Reloading the Pistol

    What follows are some of my thoughts on reloading the pistol. Hope you folks find them worthwhile.

    The first thing to address is where to put the gun to attempt to get it reloaded. After that, we have to look at how to best get the task completed in the context of the problem we are trying to deal with.

    Where Do we Put the stupid Thing?


    Reloading the pistol breaks down into two categories: Proactive and Reactive. No matter what name a technique is given, the reloads all break down into Proactive and Reactive. What do I mean? You either believe you have some bullets in the gun and want to put more bullets in the gun OR there are no bullets in the gun and you need to put bullets in the gun. All 'Tactical Reloads' are examples of Proactive reloads and most 'Speed Reloads' are examples of Reactive reloads. Of course, you could choose to execute a speed reload as a tactical reload, too. :mrgreen:

    Proactive Reloads occur when you choose to exchange the partial magazine in the gun for a full magazine. Some teach to always manipulate the slide after any reload. Others teach not to manipulate the slide on a proactive reload. Some teach to perform a Press Check after a proactive reload.

    A Look at Proactive Reloads


    Reactive Reloads occur when the gun is out of ammo and you need bullets in the gun ASAP. This is referred to as a Speed or Emergency or Combat reload by some.
    Different methods of operating the slide are taught by several folks. Some grasp the slide in an overhand fashion. Others utilize a 'sling shot' grip to move the slide. Still others use the gun hand thumb to move the slide release. And others will manipulate the slide release with the offhand thumb.

    A Look at Reactive Reloads


  2. #2
    AOK
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    Thanks for sharing. Personally for me when doing reloads I like putting my elbow (strong side) into my ribs with my wrist locked straight which ends up having the muzzle slightly in front of the tip of my nose. I like having the gun below my horizonal vision while scanning. The other thing I really like about putting my elbow into the same exact spot on my ribs everytime is it doesnt matter if I am static, walking, or running the gun is ready to reload the same exact position all the time. As a result it doesn't matter what I am doing with my feet my reloads are almost always very efficient (as long as I index the mag properly).

    I like the idea of stowing away the mag for proactive reloads. However, I have always pictured during training is as soon as there is downtime in a fight I am topping off. If I am on the move in an aggressive manner I may be leading myself into more trouble unknowingly and not have my gun ready to fight. In my mind it has been ensure the threat is out of the fight, scan and determine if there is downtime, if there is top off, then move if necessary. Thoughts?
    Last edited by AOK; December 31st, 2011 at 09:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    Personally for me when doing reloads I like putting my elbow (strong side) into my ribs with my wrist locked straight which ends up having the muzzle slightly in front of the tip of my nose.
    AOK,

    I used to do something very similar. I would index my elbow on centerline and reload from there. What I've found is that a fair number of folks do not have the flexibility to physically index their elbow to their torso where as they all can learn to index consistently given the visual input of looking across the knuckles coupled with the 'boxer's guard' analogy to pull the elbows in tight.

    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    In my mind it has been ensure the threat is out of the fight, scan and determine if there is downtime, if there is top off, then move if necessary. Thoughts?
    I think the disconnect between our perspectives has to do with movement, in general. I prefer to begin movement as I am drawing the gun and not stop until I have gotten to a better place. The only time I am going to stop moving is if the complexity of the shot demands it or if I am behind cover. If I have decent cover, I will probably reload prior to breaking cover. However, if no cover is viable, I will continue moving.

    The construct that I use to teach how to address actions upon contact is the Wyatt Protocol, so named for Lyle Wyatt. It was codified by Andy Stanford and has been taught, in some form or fashion, since the early 90s. It began as a series of steps following an encounter. Fight!, Do I need to Fight anymore?, Do I need to fight anyone else? Get Ready to fight again. In simpler terms, FASTttt: it became Fight, Assess, Scan, Top Off, Take Cover, Talk, Treat Injuries.

    The Fight component is rather self-explanatory. During the Assess phase, I am moving to change my relationship to the known threat. He doesn't appear to still be in the fight. If he did, we would still be shooting. If he does get back in the fight, he is most likely to send rounds to where he last saw me. I do not want to be there! Once I'm satisfied that the known threat is no longer a problem, I begin scanning 360 degrees. I'm looking for other threats, friendlies, a better place to be and I'm moving the whole time this is ongoing. If I located additional cover while I was assessing, I could reload there. If not, I will, most likely, initiate a reload while scanning & moving or once I've reached a better piece of cover. FYI, the Top Off, Take Cover, Talk, Treat Injuries happen in any sequence.

    Hope this helps.

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    Pro active, reactive, tactical, speed reloads.... Any more faddish buzz words for reloading? What ever happened to "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition"? Too outdated?
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Pro active, reactive, tactical, speed reloads.... Any more faddish buzz words for reloading? What ever happened to "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition"? Too outdated?
    The purpose is to simplify and clarify what we are talking about. Speed, Tactical & Emergency don't really identify anything. I'm pretty sure that in a fight for my life all three of those words might seem appropriate but what do they mean? Proactive and Reactive are, I think, a little more useful and I've used them for many years. However, after talking with a friend recently, I am inclined to simply identify them as Voluntary and Involuntary.

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    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Reminds me a lot of the system for reloading that I learned from Gabe Suarez many years ago:
    Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Pro active, reactive, tactical, speed reloads.... Any more faddish buzz words for reloading? What ever happened to "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition"? Too outdated?
    Amen brother!!! Everytime I see something like this it sounds as if somebody is trying to quote " show" something "new" so they can slap their name on the technique. I look at this and say to my self "you can't do anything advanced until you have mastered the basics. Somebody who really knows what to do and when to do it would " fix the problem" and not worry about what the definition is.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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    AOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Gomez View Post
    AOK,

    I used to do something very similar. I would index my elbow on centerline and reload from there. What I've found is that a fair number of folks do not have the flexibility to physically index their elbow to their torso where as they all can learn to index consistently given the visual input of looking across the knuckles coupled with the 'boxer's guard' analogy to pull the elbows in tight.



    I think the disconnect between our perspectives has to do with movement, in general. I prefer to begin movement as I am drawing the gun and not stop until I have gotten to a better place. The only time I am going to stop moving is if the complexity of the shot demands it or if I am behind cover. If I have decent cover, I will probably reload prior to breaking cover. However, if no cover is viable, I will continue moving.

    The construct that I use to teach how to address actions upon contact is the Wyatt Protocol, so named for Lyle Wyatt. It was codified by Andy Stanford and has been taught, in some form or fashion, since the early 90s. It began as a series of steps following an encounter. Fight!, Do I need to Fight anymore?, Do I need to fight anyone else? Get Ready to fight again. In simpler terms, FASTttt: it became Fight, Assess, Scan, Top Off, Take Cover, Talk, Treat Injuries.

    The Fight component is rather self-explanatory. During the Assess phase, I am moving to change my relationship to the known threat. He doesn't appear to still be in the fight. If he did, we would still be shooting. If he does get back in the fight, he is most likely to send rounds to where he last saw me. I do not want to be there! Once I'm satisfied that the known threat is no longer a problem, I begin scanning 360 degrees. I'm looking for other threats, friendlies, a better place to be and I'm moving the whole time this is ongoing. If I located additional cover while I was assessing, I could reload there. If not, I will, most likely, initiate a reload while scanning & moving or once I've reached a better piece of cover. FYI, the Top Off, Take Cover, Talk, Treat Injuries happen in any sequence.

    Hope this helps.
    Yes, it all makes sense. Thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    Reminds me a lot of the system for reloading that I learned from Gabe Suarez many years ago:
    Indeed. I remember Gabe & I talking about this when I hosted him in Baton Rouge back in the early 2000s. I'd been teaching the Reload with Retention as my primary technique for a few years by then and he was still teaching a variation on the Gunsite Tactical Reload. When I went out to Arizona to teach the original AK classes with Sonny Puzikas & Gabe in 05 or 06, this was the reload that I showed with the AK as well. Gabe had adopted it as his pistol reload by that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04
    Somebody who really knows what to do and when to do it would " fix the problem" and not worry about what the definition is.
    While this is a very Zen philosophy, how does one teach the concepts without definitions? It is a pretty well established that the better the terms are defined the better able the student is to understand the task. I prefer to use terms that are easily understandable rather than jargon. I've never named any technique or piece of ear after myself and have no intentions of ever doing so.

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    Thanks, Paul. Very nice work on an often overlooked topic.

    In our curriculum of H2H, we emphasize an elbow in hands up "negotiating posture" we simply refer to as the "Forklift". It is from that position that we do our reloads and immediate action. Some will have their barrel/ front site higher or lower depending on where their elbows rest on their six pack or "keg".
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    Good info.

    During an emergency reload I'll be the one with the bullet holes. During a tactical reload I'll be behind cover.

    When reloading, there's nothing more American than sitting by the fireplace, working the progressive press, and listening to Rush. That's what I first thought the thread was about. Don't forget to police your brass.
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    Sounds like the same type of tutorials we used to get from our old friend 147 Grain.
    tacman605 likes this.
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    Nice thread Paul, it's always interesting to see how different shooters approach the problems of reloading. I definitely like your distinction between proactive and reactive reloading.

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    August 19, 1970 - June 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISR MATRIX View Post
    Thanks, Paul. Very nice work on an often overlooked topic.
    Thank you.

    In our curriculum of H2H, we emphasize an elbow in hands up "negotiating posture" we simply refer to as the "Forklift". It is from that position that we do our reloads and immediate action. Some will have their barrel/ front site higher or lower depending on where their elbows rest on their six pack or "keg".
    I first became familiar with the ISR Matrix material when a friend of mine was writing an article for Black Belt. Since then, PaulSharp has become a friend. I believe that ISR is, hands down, the best progrbeing taught to law enforcement today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Gomez View Post
    Thank you.



    I first became familiar with the ISR Matrix material when a friend of mine was writing an article for Black Belt. Since then, PaulSharp has become a friend. I believe that ISR is, hands down, the best progrbeing taught to law enforcement today.
    Paul Sharp is good people. I believe I heard him speak of you and Gabe Suarez. The ISR has continued to evolve over the years but the message is still the same. We are just trying to get it out to more people. I will be presenting it this year at ILEETA as well as a few more LE conferences. Keep me in your loop. Would love to get out to do some training with you.

    Fletch
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