Understanding Retention Position

This is a discussion on Understanding Retention Position within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A short video covering some details of Cout 2 of drawstroke as a retention position. I know most everyone gives some lip service to it ...

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  1. #1
    August 19, 1970 - June 2012
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    Understanding Retention Position

    A short video covering some details of Cout 2 of drawstroke as a retention position. I know most everyone gives some lip service to it but if you don't take certain things into account, that's all it is.


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    When shooting from retention, I was taught to "zipper" the shots...up the body...but starting as you did down low.
    Thanks for the tips and the site.
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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    He should try to back off after he's shot once, then you can bring them up. If not, let him have a couple more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    When shooting from retention, I was taught to "zipper" the shots...up the body...but starting as you did down low.
    Thanks for the tips and the site.
    Thanks!

    The 'zipper' makes more sense in the context of an arcing draw. If you look at the low ready position taught in the pre-WWII point shooting material, you see that the gun starts low and lifts up the body centerline. Starting with low hits and walking them up the body made sense. This technique was carried over by some into the Modern Technique because the drawstroke, as initially taught at Gunsite, moved through the same lines as the older point shooting material.

    With the drawstroke that I utilize, the gun is brought much higher out of the holster and then is driven up, into the eye line, and out to extension. This puts all rounds, other than those fired from Count 2/Retention, much higher on the target so you don't see the classic 'zippering' up the centerline.

    Here's a video that I did illustrating the changes in drawing technique from the Gunsite model moving into the more linear Up & Out/4 Count variations.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    He should try to back off after he's shot once, then you can bring them up. If not, let him have a couple more.
    If you are firing from Retention, I think you'd better plan on firing the gun until the bad guy moves away or is moved away by the good guy. Once that has happened, the gun is advanced to appropriate extension based on the range to the threat.

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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Good videos. Thanks for posting. I have been a subscriber on YouTube for a while now. I really like your instructing style.
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    Good information............thank you.

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    Zipper it up and continue into the cranial cavity until the BG falls or stops doing what he was doing. The low shots get his attention, the upper shots turn the lights off. This is why High Capacity Guns are needed and used for SD.
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    Very good Sir. I appreciate your input here. Makes a lot of sense.
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    It would be great to be able to back up and create distance but sometimes the situation dictates you fight where you are at. This type of draw/firing is for those "Uh Oh" moments we hope we never find ourselves in. The attacker is there up close and personal and nowhere or no way to create distance.

    Years ago it was taught to draw and do an exagerated lean backward while firing but it put you so far off balance that a 6 year old could topple you over. The technique he is showing is right on. Cover your head and pull the trigger rounds will find a target.

    Remember guys you either want to cause him enough pain to where he does not want to play anymore or mechanically break him where he can't play anymore. I assure you that hits at this distance will cause one of those two things to happen.
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    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Good ideas for practice, Mr Gomez. Thanks for providing them.

    The 2-count drawstroke makes a lot of sense, given the likelihood of having to respond to a threat at very close range. As a general rule in FoF or H2H combatives, practicing specific techniques has value in that you want to develop kinesthetic memory - muscle memory - that can take over in a high-stress situation where moments count.

    At the same time, you also want to be fluid and adaptable to respond and act in accord with the dynamics of any given situation. So, rather than following a system that always has you putting your left hand here, right hand there, etc., it's worth having general principles like "move your strong side away from the attacker while drawing."
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    It would be great to be able to back up and create distance but sometimes the situation dictates you fight where you are at. This type of draw/firing is for those "Uh Oh" moments we hope we never find ourselves in. The attacker is there up close and personal and nowhere or no way to create distance.

    Years ago it was taught to draw and do an exagerated lean backward while firing but it put you so far off balance that a 6 year old could topple you over. The technique he is showing is right on. Cover your head and pull the trigger rounds will find a target.

    Remember guys you either want to cause him enough pain to where he does not want to play anymore or mechanically break him where he can't play anymore. I assure you that hits at this distance will cause one of those two things to happen.
    I have to agree with T-Man...Sometimes you can not create distance. This is where this technique really comes into play...

    Thanks, Paul...

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    Awesome. I was learning to draw with my hand over chest while drawing, allowing one to rotate the gun immediately out of the holster and fire. When I first tried it, my wrist got tweaked into an unnatural position and was uncomfortatble, then I rotated my wrist to the side and my shots were really high left, then I started rotating my wrist and pulling my elbow in. I then saw a vid where the gun was drawn up to the high chest and rotated forward like you demonstrate and then pushed straight out, but still with one's offhand on one's chest. I always wondered about how to defend against a close in attacker while drawing and shooting w/o worrying about shooting one's offhand - this solves my concerns.

    Thank you.

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    Thanks again for a great clip, Paul. Our CQB shooting platform follows the same format.
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    Interesting

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    dude close enough to me to be spitting in my face--and he/they are having me to fear for my life--

    my left hand has been wrapped around the 642 in my left coat/vest pocket and been pointed at him all along;
    for me there would be no draw and retention problems...just squeeze the trigger and let the bullet pass through the fabric
    on it way to him.
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