"Mozambique" versus "Failure to Stop"

This is a discussion on "Mozambique" versus "Failure to Stop" within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Wow, this thread just keeps getting worse. Mozambique drill VS failure to stop drill...who cares. I plan to use the Timmy drill, 4 or 5 ...

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Thread: "Mozambique" versus "Failure to Stop"

  1. #16
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    Wow, this thread just keeps getting worse.

    Mozambique drill VS failure to stop drill...who cares. I plan to use the Timmy drill, 4 or 5 to the chest and as many to the head as it takes.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    I second the Timmy drill. But I call it the Unkle Harry drill
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    Lightbulb

    We’ve always called it “Mozmbique” out of respect for the guy who invented it, Rhodesian Mercenary Mike Rousseau.

    I know a guy who was in the S.A.S. He had a bad guy coming at him with a hatchet. He fired a Double Tap from his BHP...nothing, the guy kept coming. Two more and he accessed...nothing. Two more and the guy fell to his knees in right front of him. He looked up and said, "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU MOTHER _ _ _ _ _ _!!" Right about then the bad guy got shot in the head.

    The whole point of his story he said was, "Screw that two shots and access crap, shoot 'em to the ground!"

    Needless to say, but with post engagement ballistic tests, if the attacker took a headshot from a downward trajectory (ie he was falling back or fell on his knees), you may be in a heap of trouble unless if he was still trying to engage you with a handgun from that position.
    Yeah, but some people shoot better from prone…
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  5. #19
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    Guys... Whatever is called if the guy is not stopping... Keep on shooting until he does... I prefer the headshot
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  6. #20
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    Great video, but I have to admit I've always been told the 'failure to stop' has an assess, while the Mozambique was without...to the point that during a class where a student did three quick shots, the instructor called out, "Did you just Mozambique him? That'll get you into legal trouble!", so it's not an uncommon perception.

    By the way, Phoenix, I hunted down your website, and you might want to mention where you are located. I had been hoping you were in Phoenix as I have a trip planned there soon, but had to really dig to find out where you're located!

  7. #21
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    Exactly what I wrote...

    We are located in Los Angeles (Contact | Phoenix Tactical Solutions).

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    Quote Originally Posted by cj View Post
    Great video, but I have to admit I've always been told the 'failure to stop' has an assess, while the Mozambique was without...to the point that during a class where a student did three quick shots, the instructor called out, "Did you just Mozambique him? That'll get you into legal trouble!", so it's not an uncommon perception.

    By the way, Phoenix, I hunted down your website, and you might want to mention where you are located. I had been hoping you were in Phoenix as I have a trip planned there soon, but had to really dig to find out where you're located!

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cj View Post
    "Did you just Mozambique him? That'll get you into legal trouble!", so it's not an uncommon perception.
    Apparently, a number of instructors have that same misconception.
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixTS View Post
    One school of thought dictates transitioning to the head after the controlled pair and if your sights are superimposed on the head (i.e. the attacker is still standing), fire off a round. Pistols are extremely underpowered...
    I would say that in the time it took to evaluate your first 2 shots to center mass the assailant will still likely be standing unless at least one of the shots took out a component of the central nervous system or something structural. I can only think a spinal hit would be about the only thing COM that may initiate that. Unless you inadvertantly hit low and took out the pelvis or a hip.

    Only my .02 cents though. You may have a little bit more noticeable target impact with something like a 12 gauge.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Wow, this thread just keeps getting worse.

    Mozambique drill VS failure to stop drill...who cares. I plan to use the Timmy drill, 4 or 5 to the chest and as many to the head as it takes.
    +2 on the Timmy Drill.
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    In the training I have had, the theory was a consistent controled pair to COM, then if the BG is still a threat, one to the head.

    The idea behind the training concept is that of legal appearences. We were not taught to "automatically execute" the BG, but simply trained to "stop the threat." (if two shots to COM did not stop the threat, THEN take the head shot). This concept may not be as tactically sound, but also takes into account the legal realities of our country and the importances of subtle appearences in the follow-on court-room battle........
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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott View Post
    In the training I have had, the theory was a consistent controled pair to COM, then if the BG is still a threat, one to the head.

    The idea behind the training concept is that of legal appearences. We were not taught to "automatically execute" the BG, but simply trained to "stop the threat." (if two shots to COM did not stop the threat, THEN take the head shot). This concept may not be as tactically sound, but also takes into account the legal realities of our country and the importances of subtle appearences in the follow-on court-room battle........
    But here's the conundrum... How much time do you take to perform that assessment?

    I'm of the opinion that I don't stop shooting until they are on the ground and/or the gun is no longer attached to their hand. Once they are on the ground, then I'll stop pulling the trigger and assess if they are still a threat.
    -Bark'n
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  13. #27
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    All very interesting experiences and viewpoints. I enjoyed the video regardless of terminology. Thank you!
    BigJon


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    Quote Originally Posted by onacoma View Post
    Im going to agree with phoenix on this one. Since i joined the Marine Corps the Mozambique had no assessment. It was 3 shots in quick succession, 2 to the body and then one to the head, or as they call it in the Marine Corps, "t-box". The third shot of the failure drill can be fired at the head or the pelvis. It is a larger target in the pelvis area.

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  15. #29
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    I don't waste time with either. I teach my military guys the Zipper, we start at the widest part of the body we can see and work up. We don't stop until at the top. Don't waste time assessing anything but the next B G.
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  16. #30
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    The Mozambique drill, and the failure to stop drill, both being the same exercise by a different name start with the obsolete idea of a double tap to each target. That was how we were trained with revolvers a lifetime ago. The standard today is to shoot in bursts ie 3-5 rounds COM and then 3-5 to the face if that does not work, shoot until the threat is gone.

    It is child's play to place an aimed headshot at 7 yards on a paper target from the weaver or isosceles stance, try it running and diving for cover with an adrenaline dump in progress. A little drill we did in one SWAT school I attended was this: Run 1/4 mile in a gas mask, right up to the firing line, peel the mask off and begin the combat course. Try to make aimed shots sucking air.....
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