Simulating stress? - Page 2

Simulating stress?

This is a discussion on Simulating stress? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I guess I look at this from different perspective. If this is home defense there might be time for the symptoms mentioned to have an ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array rick21's Avatar
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    I guess I look at this from different perspective. If this is home defense there might be time for the symptoms mentioned to have an effect. If this is a street attack, more often than not, it will happen so fast the symptoms of adenaline dump won't occur until the fight is over. An attack of this nature is over in a matter of seconds. We will either comply or counter attack, either way it will be over very quickly. Kind of like someone stopping short in front of you in traffic, you hit the brakes and/or steer out of the way. You may suffer the effects of adrenaline dump but it will be after the problem is solved. In an Ayoob class this was covered, we intentionally made the pistol shake in our hands and at civillian CCW distances all our rounds went into the torso of the target. I haven't worried about it since.

    Not that all street attacks happen like this (appears to be a hit) but it serves as an example of how fast things happen. No doubt there was adrenaline dump here but it's unlikely there was time for it to have any effect. The action starts at 1:17.

    The vid loads slowly but it's worth the wait if your interested in such things.

    Tiroteo en Flores. Policia sobrevive - YouTube


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Good example. Same thing if you are a pilot and lose an engine on take off. The cockpit crew either reacts appropriately or not. The immediate actions are done in mere seconds. After the aircraft is in a stable flight and the flyability of the aircraft is verified then the adrenaline starts kicking in. Parachute malfunctions are another example. You will either panic or not. After your reserve is pulled then you start noticing the effects of an adrenaline rush.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Good example. Same thing if you are a pilot and lose an engine on take off. The cockpit crew either reacts appropriately or not. The immediate actions are done in mere seconds. After the aircraft is in a stable flight and the flyability of the aircraft is verified then the adrenaline starts kicking in. Parachute malfunctions are another example. You will either panic or not. After your reserve is pulled then you start noticing the effects of an adrenaline rush.
    Not all that similar but I notice this with deer hunting. The big buck shows up and in just a few seconds you either get him or you don't. It's always faster than you think it will be and never they way you expect it to be.

    Anyhow, after I shoot a deer I get a huge adrenaline dump and a bad case of the shakes. When I'm in a tree stand I don't dare try to climb down right away. I force myself to sit down and get myself under control before attempting to climb down a ladder. It usually takes about 20 minutes to be mostly normal again.

    @OP:

    When I was a paintballer we trained by sprinting two or three laps around the house to elevate our heart rates before doing snap shooting drills. It made a difference.
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  4. #19
    Member Array 1911srule's Avatar
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    I dont think it can be simulated imho. Physical stress can give some measure. I was diagnosed with high blood pressure recently, if I had a deadly force confrontation right now I'd be more afraid of having a stroke! Once I get it lowered with diet, meds. I have got to get back into a running routine and ideally lose 10-15 lbs. I'm 5'10 @195, thought I was in fair shape. But we're kidding ourselves if we think just a ccw and proficiency with it will be enough.My point is don't worry about duplicating the stress, train and get yourself in the best physical condition possible so ya don't vapor lock if and when ya gotta fight...
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  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    some people do not experience stress or the negative effects of adrenalin when in a confrontational situation.

    rather they channel it usefully to heighten awayness, to dilate time.
    for a very few this comes naturally; some may train and achieve it.

    along with training to deal with it, id put some time into being one with it, grasshopper.
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  6. #21
    Member Array rick21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911srule View Post
    I dont think it can be simulated imho. Physical stress can give some measure. I was diagnosed with high blood pressure recently, if I had a deadly force confrontation right now I'd be more afraid of having a stroke! Once I get it lowered with diet, meds. I have got to get back into a running routine and ideally lose 10-15 lbs. I'm 5'10 @195, thought I was in fair shape. But we're kidding ourselves if we think just a ccw and proficiency with it will be enough.My point is don't worry about duplicating the stress, train and get yourself in the best physical condition possible so ya don't vapor lock if and when ya gotta fight...
    Agreed, we spend hours at the range working on technical skills but forget we are no better than our physical condition.

  7. #22
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    Classes I've been in try various tricks to induce stress. For many, simply adding time limits (timers, turning targets, etc.) adds a degree. Naming targets is another trick (i.e. put the name of a loved one on a target, then shoot around it while hitting the 'bad guy' targets). Competition between students (e.g. a shooting tree) can induce both the stress of the competitor along with the common 'stage fright' of performing in front of the rest of the class.

    My joke has been to down a Big Gulp of espresso, drop and do a number of pushups, sprint 400 meters to the line, then perform your test.

  8. #23
    New Member Array JackWilliams's Avatar
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    Well Just need to make sure your fundamentals remain good. That being said, you should consider professional training as well. Do both, I really do not see any harm in it....

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    The physical stress/exhaustion is just another tool to use. It throws a wrench in that aimed shot. The shaky knees and nausea is not getting the adrenaline dump, it is the side affects, it is AFTER the fight is over.

    I have been drawn down on more than my fair share of Bad Guys, and when I did have the opportunity to focus my attention on the sights, they were dead steady center mass.

    Train your butt off and maybe, just maybe you will perform well enough to survive a lethal encounter. Any trigger time is good trigger time. I suggest IDPA for all, it is reactive, drawing from cover, using cover when available, seeking it when it is not available, shooting on the move. Yes it is a gun game, but it is fun and it is trigger time.

    Get quality training and practice.

  10. #25
    Member Array ISR MATRIX's Avatar
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    I have seen people that were hooked on stress fire drills and competitive shooting that could outshoot anyone on the course due to their own familiarity and comfort with the event. Outside the drill, they still made some rookie mistakes under stress that they thought were far behind them.

    Keep in mind that training under adrenal stress can be an exercise in "chasing your own tail". Your body adapts and grows overcome stress with repetition. Do enough reps and the same stimulus will eventually lose its authentic response. It becomes "noise" and you lose perspective on your progress. Not all bad, but in my opinion should be integrated into training with a variety of stressors, including exercise induced. Use the drills to provoke spontaneous response and promote a winning mindset as opposed to simply getting so comfortable with the drill that you are just "gaming it". Keep a balance.
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  11. #26
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISR MATRIX View Post
    I have seen people that were hooked on stress fire drills and competitive shooting that could outshoot anyone on the course due to their own familiarity and comfort with the event. Outside the drill, they still made some rookie mistakes under stress that they thought were far behind them.

    Keep in mind that training under adrenal stress can be an exercise in "chasing your own tail". Your body adapts and grows overcome stress with repetition. Do enough reps and the same stimulus will eventually lose its authentic response. It becomes "noise" and you lose perspective on your progress. Not all bad, but in my opinion should be integrated into training with a variety of stressors, including exercise induced. Use the drills to provoke spontaneous response and promote a winning mindset as opposed to simply getting so comfortable with the drill that you are just "gaming it". Keep a balance.
    Nobody knows how they will react to true life threatening stress until they are faced with it. All you can do is train and mentally prepare as best you can but when it happens.... then you will find out.

  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebitt300 View Post
    So I was wondering if there are anything specific you guys do to simulate the stress and adrenaline of a self defense situation while doing drills
    goes to mindset----but if your SA is operational, and you play the 'what-if' game;
    observing and making plans...modifing, changing, tweaking the plans as information...
    the situation changes, than it is rather hard to scare you, right?

    i mean, if you anticipate potential events---and they occur,
    its not like "they came out of nowhere" or "i never saw it coming"

    so, having removed the 'scared silly' from your involvement in the event
    you will less likely have an adverse adrenalin dump.

    so train , train and train with a timer and reactive targets so you are not
    thinking how good you are doing---the proof is evident.

    and with competence comes confidence; which certainly may help you
    to channel the adrenalin in a positive manor
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  13. #28
    Ex Member Array IDontCare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    some people do not experience stress or the negative effects of adrenalin when in a confrontational situation.

    rather they channel it usefully to heighten awayness, to dilate time.
    for a very few this comes naturally; some may train and achieve it.

    along with training to deal with it, id put some time into being one with it, grasshopper.
    I agree with this. I don't even experience the "adrenaline dump" afterwards anymore. Haven't for years. Not being in control of your bodys reaction to adrenaline and your basic senses during an altercation could cause more harm than good.

  14. #29
    Member Array ericmt's Avatar
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    A few people mentioned competing in shooting competitions to simulate stress. Massad Ayoob recommends this, because the anxiety you feel shooting in front of a bunch of people, especially those you don't know, gives you a similar type of "flight, fight or freeze" adrenaline dump to what you will probably get in a gunfight. You don't really get this kind of thing when exercising, unless you are in a race with others right before the shooting. From what I understand, it's the anxiety and pressure you want to simulate.

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