At what distances do you practice?

This is a discussion on At what distances do you practice? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by kelcarry Still do not understand how I, as a "lucky" average citizen, is going to be put in a situation where I ...

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Thread: At what distances do you practice?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array TheShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Still do not understand how I, as a "lucky" average citizen, is going to be put in a situation where I have to discharge my firearm because of imminent danger at say 20 or 30 or more yards. I agree that we each have to walk our own walk. Mine is different than yours and I guess I have been much more fortunate than you.
    It's because YOU did pay attention during the CWP mandatory classes.... rather I'd say smart instead of lucky.

    Shooting in a crowded mall @ 65 yards MISSING your "perceived" intended target and hitting some innocent bystander(s) is very possible IMO. To take that shot you better have ice water running through your veins and be robotic... now we have TWO active shooters in the mall. Now would be a good time to flash your CCW badge to inform the terrified masses "hey I'm the good guy"

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    With a pistol I normally practice at 1, 3, 7 and 25 meters.

    The 1 meter one includes a hand sweep to knock the BG gun away from yourself, as you triple tap at COM from the waist. Ideally it should be enter lower COM angled up.

    The 3, 7 meter range is using the front site only for fast double taps, timed from the draw, and only at the 25 meter line do I start using the rear sites.

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
    It's because YOU did pay attention during the CWP mandatory classes.... rather I'd say smart instead of lucky.

    Shooting in a crowded mall @ 65 yards MISSING your "perceived" intended target and hitting some innocent bystander(s) is very possible IMO. To take that shot you better have ice water running through your veins and be robotic... now we have TWO active shooters in the mall. Now would be a good time to flash your CCW badge to inform the terrified masses "hey I'm the good guy"
    I'll leave the shopping malls to the ninjas. I'm out here on the farm, where the dope growers have been known to open fire on landowners at range. You OK with that?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  5. #19
    Member Array 303british's Avatar
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    I live in a remote area, and two legged predators are not all I have to worry about. Itís possible to need a 50 or more yard shot without leaving my fenced yard. I donít do a lot of long range practice with a handgun, but I do some.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array TheShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I'll leave the shopping malls to the ninjas.
    affirmative...

    I'm out here on the farm, where the dope growers have been known to open fire on landowners at range. You OK with that?
    Oh come on now...

    trying to be a hero like the "65 yard dramatic mall shoot scenario" and protecting oneself from doped up trespassers actually shooting at at you/me is a good bit different... wouldn't you say?

    Oh wait... you did say that

    BTW what do you grow/raise?

  7. #21
    Member Array thephanatik's Avatar
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    The range I frequent only has 15 yards, 25, 50, 100, and steel out at like 200 and 300. I used to shoot a lot at 15, but with Wisconsin's new concealed carry law, its always packed, so I've been shooting my subcompact XD9 at 25 yards recently. I tried shooting it at 50 yards offhand, but couldn't see if I was hitting high, low, left, etc. I went to 15 yards right after that and shot one of the tightest groups I've shot before though.
    Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation. - Rule #23 in the USMC rules for gunfighting.

  8. #22
    Member Array tactilame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
    It's because YOU did pay attention during the CWP mandatory classes.... rather I'd say smart instead of lucky.

    Shooting in a crowded mall @ 65 yards MISSING your "perceived" intended target and hitting some innocent bystander(s) is very possible IMO. To take that shot you better have ice water running through your veins and be robotic... now we have TWO active shooters in the mall. Now would be a good time to flash your CCW badge to inform the terrified masses "hey I'm the good guy"
    I have to agree with Harryball on this one, but I understand where you and Kelcarry are coming from. The way I look at it is this:

    1. If you had the means/time/money to train for every scenario, regardless how unlikely it was, wouldn't you feel more prepared, and subsequently, have more peace of mind? Everyone is different, but I know I would. I shoot at every distance I can get my hands on. The odds that I'd have to use my firearm in a defensive scenario are already incredibly small. But if there ever were a time, I'd like to be as prepared for it as possible. ALSO, am I the only one who thinks that shooting is just inherently fun? If I'm at the range alone I try to better myself each time; if I'm at my buddy's farm we have friendly competitions with the defensive drills we do.

    2. The "mall scenario" will probably never happen to me. And ideally, if I were in a situation like that and a good distance from the BG, my first thought would be to use cover/concealment to get closer to the BG where I could get the best shot possible with the safest backdrop, etc. But come on man, if there's simply not a way to get closer to him, and I see the opportunity for a shot at 50 yards, you bet I'm gonna take it. I don't think I'd be able to stand there watching him mow people down.

    3. As for how the terrified masses would react, if I were there and I saw some dude in a trench coat shooting indiscriminately at everyone in sight, and then I saw another guy next to me, across the mall, with just a pistol at low and ready looking very alert (and obviously NOT shooting at everyone), I'd either assume he were an off duty cop, or a responsible armed citizen. There may be a lot of sheeple in the world, but just because guns are taboo to them it doesn't mean they're all morons.

    The fact of the matter is, none of us can guess or even assert how we would react in any specific scenario until we've been in that scenario before. God willing, that'll never happen to any of us. I think the best we can expect from ourselves to train as hard as we can and trust our own judgment. If we can't trust our own judgment, we shouldn't be carrying in the first place.

    Done rambling :)
    Harryball likes this.
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  9. #23
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    The 'average' gunfight may be close range and require 3 or less shots. That has zero to do with the fight I may be in. I may need no shots, one shot, or 20.

    If 9 out of 10 attempted robbery targets got out of their situation by just pulling a gun, that has zero to do with the robbery I may be a target of.

    If the 'average' fight takes place at less than 7yds, again, that has zero to do with the fight I may be in.
    tactilame and MikeNice like this.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tactilame View Post
    I have to agree with Harryball on this one, but I understand where you and Kelcarry are coming from. The way I look at it is this:

    1. If you had the means/time/money to train for every scenario, regardless how unlikely it was, wouldn't you feel more prepared, and subsequently, have more peace of mind? Everyone is different, but I know I would. I shoot at every distance I can get my hands on. The odds that I'd have to use my firearm in a defensive scenario are already incredibly small. But if there ever were a time, I'd like to be as prepared for it as possible. ALSO, am I the only one who thinks that shooting is just inherently fun? If I'm at the range alone I try to better myself each time; if I'm at my buddy's farm we have friendly competitions with the defensive drills we do.

    2. The "mall scenario" will probably never happen to me. And ideally, if I were in a situation like that and a good distance from the BG, my first thought would be to use cover/concealment to get closer to the BG where I could get the best shot possible with the safest backdrop, etc. But come on man, if there's simply not a way to get closer to him, and I see the opportunity for a shot at 50 yards, you bet I'm gonna take it. I don't think I'd be able to stand there watching him mow people down.

    3. As for how the terrified masses would react, if I were there and I saw some dude in a trench coat shooting indiscriminately at everyone in sight, and then I saw another guy next to me, across the mall, with just a pistol at low and ready looking very alert (and obviously NOT shooting at everyone), I'd either assume he were an off duty cop, or a responsible armed citizen. There may be a lot of sheeple in the world, but just because guns are taboo to them it doesn't mean they're all morons.

    The fact of the matter is, none of us can guess or even assert how we would react in any specific scenario until we've been in that scenario before. God willing, that'll never happen to any of us. I think the best we can expect from ourselves to train as hard as we can and trust our own judgment. If we can't trust our own judgment, we shouldn't be carrying in the first place.

    Done rambling :)
    Nice. IMO you have hit the nail on the head.

    @ScottM you are right about stats. The do not matter, because the fight your in, is yours. IMO to play the stats is foolish.

    @kelcarry, I hope the above helps you understand....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  11. #25
    Member Array Sharkie308's Avatar
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    My carry guns 3 yards out to 25 sometimes out to 50 if i'm feeling frisky. In a real life scenario my ass is running the other direction if the BG is 50 yards away. I run 3+ miles a day I can bail out quick. My only issue is my girl is a bit handicapped at the moment. So I do train at longer distances just in case the situation arises that she ends up in danger and can't effectively evacuate the area. My scoped long guns out to 500+ when I make it to a place where I have the distance to do so. Regardless for SD training it's within 50 yards. The only place where I would need to train farther would be if I was being attacked on my farm in which would prob never happen but I'd prob just wait for them to break into the house and take them down as they come to me.

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array 45ACP4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    They do not matter, because the fight your in, is yours. IMO to play the stats is foolish.
    THANK YOU! Most police officers never need their weapon, but those cops in North Hollywood were begging for bigger weapons in that Bank of America shootout.

    Then again I have the feeling that most people that are ridiculing those of us that practice at longer ranges are the same ones that chant "3 rounds 3 feet 3 seconds" as they shoot.

    As I said, I train everything from close range (roughly a yard or two) out to longer ranges because you never know what could happen. I highly HIGHLY doubt I will ever be involved in any shooting, let alone a mall shooting, but it doesn't mean I won't prepare for it. I also have two fire extinguishers at home but have never even had a stove fire.

    I've never known anyone outside of a few combat vets that have shot anyone, does that mean I should not carry because I most likely won't have use it?

    It's because YOU did pay attention during the CWP mandatory classes.... rather I'd say smart instead of lucky.

    Shooting in a crowded mall @ 65 yards MISSING your "perceived" intended target and hitting some innocent bystander(s) is very possible IMO. To take that shot you better have ice water running through your veins and be robotic... now we have TWO active shooters in the mall. Now would be a good time to flash your CCW badge to inform the terrified masses "hey I'm the good guy"
    No, I'd say lucky. We don't get to choose who will do what to us when. Last week we had a local guy stabbed to death BY HIS OWN WIFE. I'm pretty sure no one trains for that scenario, but apparently it happens.

    It's also called discretion. I'm not going to open fire on some guy at 65 yards that's surrounded by people, that's one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard. Also, at any distance over 20 yards I am firing ONE shot at a threat, not emptying a whole mag and hoping for hits.

    And I think those CCW badges are the craziest, stupidest thing ever invented for concealed carry.
    "It is your evil that will be sought by us. With every breath we will hunt them down. Each day we will spill their blood, until it rains down from the skies. Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles that every man from every faith can embrace." -McManus twins Boondock Saints

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array NY27's Avatar
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    Dept qual course goes from 3 - 25 yards. Most of the rounds fired are from 7 - 15 yards. We also train from touching the target, shooting from hand on hip position while moving rearward and off-line. When I practice alone, lately I have been doing a lot of drills from 10 yards. I'll also throw 3 or 4 mags at the steel torso sized target from 45 - 60 yards. It's comforting to hear it ping on "almost" every round. I usually get my misses when I try to shoot too fast from that range. If I take my time, I hit it everytime.

    But now I'm curious. I think that next time I go to the range, I'm gonna measure out 100 yards and see how I do off-hand. I have to figure out where I'll have to hold with my Glock 17 & 19. Out to 60, I hold COM on the torso and hit.
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY27 View Post
    Dept qual course goes from 3 - 25 yards. Most of the rounds fired are from 7 - 15 yards. We also train from touching the target, shooting from hand on hip position while moving rearward and off-line. When I practice alone, lately I have been doing a lot of drills from 10 yards. I'll also throw 3 or 4 mags at the steel torso sized target from 45 - 60 yards. It's comforting to hear it ping on "almost" every round. I usually get my misses when I try to shoot too fast from that range. If I take my time, I hit it everytime.

    But now I'm curious. I think that next time I go to the range, I'm gonna measure out 100 yards and see how I do off-hand. I have to figure out where I'll have to hold with my Glock 17 & 19. Out to 60, I hold COM on the torso and hit.
    Bullet drop at 100 yards is only about five inches.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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  15. #29
    Member Array l1a1's Avatar
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    I practice at 21' only using the Weaver stance. Scientific studies have proven that nearly all self defense shootings occur at exactly 21', unless of course the perpetrator is a foreigner and using the metric system. :)
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  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    The real question is are we practicing for the real world or are we having fun target shooting? If it is the real world it is short and sweet, it is 3, 5, 7, 10 yards, whatever you believe is the distance that you need to actually present your firearm and fire it given imminent danger. Not only is it the distance but it should also include practice with more point/shoot in mind so as to minimize your reaction time to an imminent threat. If we are target shooting, the skies the limit. If you are practicing and are practicing at 40, 50, 100 yards, IMO, have at it--you are making the ammo mfgrs happy and rich but sure are not doing anything to protect yourself. No one can tell me, in the context of this supposed civilian defense forum, that there is a creditable reason to be firing at someone who is 100 yards from you--ridiculous, extreme, and irresponsible target shooting-yes/defensive practice-ridiculous
    Hummm, interesting...... then those times (more than once) when someone was shooting at me with rifles.... I should have just run home and cry to mommy.... that this is not supposed to happen. Instead of firing back , like I did.

    Your comment is absurd and short-sighted. .... at least for around here it is.

    You are only wasting ammunition if you are that bad of a shot, and even then... it's not a waste if you get more accurate in the process so you can shoot at those distances.

    I'll have 3" groups with a revolver and 4" groups at 60' , rapid firing and unloading the gun within 2.5 seconds. I practice 50 yrds all of the time, and 100 yrds at times.
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