couple of questions after taking my first defensive pistol class

This is a discussion on couple of questions after taking my first defensive pistol class within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I guess I'm gonna have to give more than $.02 worth on this one, so will tailor my reply by post #...here goes: #1, RobFL...IF ...

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Thread: couple of questions after taking my first defensive pistol class

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    I guess I'm gonna have to give more than $.02 worth on this one, so will tailor my reply by post #...here goes:

    #1, RobFL...IF it was a "Defensive Pistol" class, then I encourage you to train with your EDC. Why? Simply put, it is the weapon that YOU will depend upon to protect yourself and your loved ones. Wouldn't you want that weapon to be the one you are most proficient with and trust the most to perform in the pinch? What someone else trains with should be of no concern to you UNLESS it is proven, thru performance, that it is a superior weapon to that of your choice at the time. For instance, my first Defensive Pistol class, I trained with a Glock 26, subcompact, 9mm, semiautomatic. Although it served me well, in running over 1000 rounds in two days and not letting me down, I was offered and used a Glock 19 for about 200 rounds. Two months after the fact, I purchased my current EDC, a Glock 19, compact, 9mm, semi automatic and it replaced my Glock 26 as my EDC. As for holster...IF YOU carry IWB, then train IWB unless prohibited by your instructor, and if that's the case, I wouldn't have taken the class in the first place. Some instructors do allow you to train WITHOUT a conceal garment. Believe me, there is MORE stress innoculation using a cover garment than not using it. So, if you have the opportunity, train the way you carry. You might not be the fastest on the line, but your training will tell you exactly what you need to do to perfect your presentation from your holster w/cover garment.

    #2, RoadRunner71...Agreed...Nice post.

    #3, tacman605...Agreed...Well said!

    #4, babarock...Agreed

    #5, kelcarry...Agreed

    #6, Mike1956...You bring up some points, that to many of us are absolutely ludicrous, but as you say happens. Why would ANYONE, attending a Defensive Pistol Class, purportedly for TRAINING, would utilize the EASY way of doing something versus the expected/accepted way of improving one's skill, is beyond me!

    #7, glockrocker...Well stated.

    #8, RobFL...In your first sentence, you identified yourself as one who shoots "poorly". Now that you have identified THAT, it will behoove you to research the fundamentals of stance, grip, sight picture, and trigger control as it applies to "target accuracy". Then research proper draw and presentation. Practice, practice, practice...Once you have developed your skills to the point they are acceptable to putting hits in COM, then you can begin to experiment moving and shooting or "getting off the X", where stance and in some instances, sight picture, will NOT play as much of a factor in your achievements of hitting COM.

    #9, Stubborn...Agreed

    #10, Mike1956...I don't know your sense of humor or serious side, so better reserve my comments here..LOL Nawwwww..honestly, other than the "easy to accessorize" comment, I actually agree with what you said...My G19 is easy to shoot, fun, reliable, and comfortable to carry and I bet my life on it each time it goes in my holster.

    #11, adric22...I assume your comment about shooting you G19, when qualifying, inorder to get the "highest score", simply meant you were concentrating on accuracy and NOT just tryin to be "Top Shot" in the numbers game...LOL

    #12, mjblat...I'm not really sure how to comment on this post. I certainly don't think I would attend a class that dictated HOW I must carry my weapon inorder to come to the class. JMO Then, regardless of the experience in the class, if an instructor is proficient in how he teaches, he will take everyone, whether beginner, novice, experienced, or otherwise, from the basics (drawing IWB or OWB, presentation, etc) up to the level he wishes them to reach when completing his class. When instructed properly, WHY would it go bad quickly? Why would you have reservations? Why would you be concerned as to whether cover garments were required? Train the way you carry and build upon your expertise. JMO

    #13, RoadRunner71...I too was unsure about Mike1956's post, but after rereading it, came to the conclusion that I agreed with MOST of it. Even the part about comfort of carry. I don't think there is anyone who carries that doesn't attempt to carry in such a manner, with such a weapon, that it is somewhat comfortable to carry. I've never heard anyone on here state they DESIRE/ACCEPT pain simply to carry XYZ brand weapon. Maybe I've missed it tho..LOL

    #14, claude clay...LOL...again, other than the "easy to accessorize" part, after thinking about it, I dnjoy shooting my G19, hence I look forward to training with it each and every time...it is as accurate as I am with my fundamentals...I have experimented with my carry decision and I am always comfortable based on my choices...and though I have NEVER used it in a real "shoot" for your life capacity, I'm comfortable that the G19 will perform as good as I expect it to, otherwise I wouldn't carry it. Soooo, I'm hoping Mike wasn't being sarcastic and you were...LOL....JMO

    #15, yale...Do what ya gotta do till it's proven or disproven as to dependability, accuracy, performance, etc...I agree totally.
    RobFL likes this.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner71 View Post
    I don't want to hijack the thread so I will make this brief. The problem that I see is some folks put the emphasis on "comfortable to carry"above all other factors. My personal opinion is that thinking is completely backwards.
    Although I understand what you say, I disagree. If you do not have the firearm on you it makes little difference how proficient you are with it. Self defense and CC are extremely important but more important to some to the point that they are the 24/7 type members on this forum who want to know where to place their weapon when they are in the shower or in a public bathroom etal---I am not trying to be sarcastic, I am trying to make a point about their commitment to their firearm and CC. Many are more "casual" and, yes, many on this forum can criticize their decision--within this category are those who purchased the "big gun" or even the "mouser" but just cannot stand things hanging from their waist, shoulder, pocket etal--the firearm ends up being the "house gun" and as long as they do not make a firearm that fits in your hand, has a decent grip, weighs less than 6 oz and has some calibre behind it, comfort to carry will remain a deciding factor. Wrong? Right? Isn't that what horse races are all about?

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner71 View Post
    I don't want to hijack the thread so I will make this brief. The problem that I see is some folks put the emphasis on "comfortable to carry"above all other factors. My personal opinion is that thinking is completely backwards.
    I listed five components I personally require in an everyday carry firearm. I'm not sure what part of my thinking you deem backwards.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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  5. #19
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    "#10, Mike1956...I don't know your sense of humor or serious side, so better reserve my comments here..LOL Nawwwww..honestly, other than the "easy to accessorize" comment, I actually agree with what you said...My G19 is easy to shoot, fun, reliable, and comfortable to carry and I bet my life on it each time it goes in my holster."


    I also know, from firsthand experience that my Glock 19 edc is easy to accessorize.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    MIke---ua need to wave a flag or something to let people know, especially new shooters and new members,

    when you are floating a statement of sarcastic nature.


    this one, for instance, is dangerously close to the truth
    I'm not sure why my straight-up serious post regarding qualities I require in an edc was perceived as facetious, sarcastic or anything other than sincere.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobFL View Post
    Hello all

    I recently took my first pistol class and I noticed something I wanted to ask about. There was about 20 people in the class and I noticed that of the 20 there was only 3 or 4 people using a compact pistol such as myself. I noticed a few M&P compacts pistols and a smaller glock, everyone else had full size xd, glock and 1911's as well as a few others I did not recognize but I seeing how this was, I thought, a defensive pistol class I figured there would be more folks using compacts. I thought at first maybe that is all they had, maybe they carry full size guns? So I asked a few of them on a break if that was comfortable to carry etc and to my surprise nearly all of them I asked (about 6) said "this is not what I usually carry, I carry a xxxxxx"?

    Being new to all of this I did not want to make a fool out of myself since in person, rather do it here (lol)-- I just kept the conversation short but I hope someone can enlighten me here?

    I have 4 pistols total. 3 are full size and the 1 compact and since I carry my compact and wanted to get some training with it I decided to shoot that weapon. I also brought a paddle holster and my crossbreed holster. That was the other thing I noticed. A large number of them had OWB holsters like the comp-tac and the blade tech that I recognized. Is there a reason that I am missing or an advantage when training with a full size pistol vs a compact? OR an advantage when taking a class like this to use OWB holsters even if you do not carry that way?


    All my very limited knowledge allows me to think is that the gear was pointless to them they were there to learn the skills or trigger control, sighting, shooting on the move etc, etc and nothing else mattered to them.

    I am only asking for my own knowledge. I surely understand people do what they wish and what makes them comfortable I just wanted to see if I was doing something out of the ordinary or missing something by using my concealed carry gear instead of an outside the waistband set up and/or full size pistol.

    Any replies would be great. Not knocking anyone and I didnt want to think to much about it while there but afterwards I am still a bit confused.

    Thanks
    You did good taking your EDC, I do the same, I also have a full size gun that has the same manual of arms as my EDC. Either way, if they were teaching the fundamentals that will transfer to any handgun.....
    RobFL likes this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array taseal's Avatar
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    Remember your full size mp has same controls like your compact. You could use that and your compact will be very similar. Perhaps not the recoil management and all, but everything else.

    If I did a class it woud be in my full size mp9

    I carry mp9c off duty, mp9 for work. Sometimes a 1911 off duty too

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
    RobFL likes this.

  9. #23
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    Like Harryball, in one class I had a larger 1911 I took to class to use in place of the 3" 1911 I carried. I did this because 800 rounds through a 3", aluminum framed 1911 HURTS LIKE A 3" aluminum framed 1911. A full-size, all steel 1911 is the same manual of arms and won't chew my hand up while I put those 800 + rounds through it. I'm learning the same fundamentals and it will all apply.

    And, as others have said, some classes require a particular type of holster and for good reason. Some people do not do their research and they show up to classes with really cheap and crappy holsters that, when put to the test of multiple draws and reholsters can end up being dangerous.

    I prefer OWB myself so I usually take an OWB holster to such classes. I have an IWB but it's in the same position and holds the firearm similarly so I just go ahead and go with my OWB for classes.

    Right now I'm carrying a Glock 19 and I will go ahead and take that to my next class coming up in a little less than a month (SOOO EXCITED!!).

    It is a good idea to train as closely as you carry. It certainly makes sense. But you have to remember that every instructor and class has to think about the safety of the group and will often make everyone start non-concealing in a special holster and some even have firearms they will not accept in class. Since you didn't mention such restrictions it sounds like you didn't have to worry about that but it happens.

    Ultimately, however, if you are learning the concepts that you are supposed to be getting you should be able to apply them to any firearm you pick up and so it shouldn't matter if you shoot a Glock 19 in class and carry a Glock 26 or whatever. What you learn should apply to all firearms.

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