Checking out Krav Maga: tips?

This is a discussion on Checking out Krav Maga: tips? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by paaiyan Everyone did their own warmups and stretches, That's fine if you know what to do and how to do them. I ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    Everyone did their own warmups and stretches,
    That's fine if you know what to do and how to do them.

    I required an explanation of what the various punch names were.
    Getting the book I told you about will help you with the small amount of terminology you'll need.
    There are a few things they have named that are not obvious. "Cavallier" being one term
    where you just have to accept their explanation for why they use it.

    The final portion of the class was spent on two gun disarms. One from the front, and one from behind with the defender pushed against a wall. The frontal defense was a pivoting movement to the assailant's gun-side, one hand grabbing the slide of the gun and spinning it to the inside of the assailant, while the other slapped the inside of the gun arm to loosen the grip.
    That's not what is in the Level I-III book I don't think. It may be in the Black Belt Book. Whatever works. There is more than one
    way to skin a cat. IMO gun disarms are the least important thing for ordinary folks. For real, I'd probably not have the nerve
    to try them unless I was certain I was about to be shot even if I complied. For us hand-gun folk, learning to break away and make space, getting to their deadside and outside, is real important. I try to keep in mind during my training that
    I want to do something which will allow me to go for pepper or for something else, which might include a gun. Unfortunately,
    my personal style is to move in tight, the exact opposite, and as I often say I'll walk into a knife doing what I do.

    This one is pretty much guaranteed to break the assailant's finger if it's in the trigger guard.
    Breaking fingers is good.

    Hoppy, I did purchase the first book you mentioned. The wife and I looked at it together and made it through the foreword and introduction to KM philosophies.
    Good for you. I find I can't teach myself much from the diagrams, but they are really helpful to look at and study before and
    after. Then if not sure, ask for more work on that topic.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Agreed on gun disarms. Something I'd like to know, but not focus on at the expense of other things. Knife disarms I'd like to work on. A gun can't hurt you (generally) as long as it's not pointed at you, so getting out of the way is really the most important step. Knives, however, can do some tricksy things.

    As for the book, the diagrams and descriptions should be good enough to get an idea what they're wanting you to do. The wife is a willing and able training partner, so she and I can work through things and figure out the minutia. Our current plan is to attend this class several times a month and read through the book, then once we've got more of a handle on how to work through exercises and what exercises we need to focus on we'll cut the attendance down. We'll work on things at home regularly, but visit the class once or twice a month to train with other people who act and react differently. And people I can hit full force without having to worry about arsenic in my dinner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    Agreed on gun disarms. Something I'd like to know, but not focus on at the expense of other things. Knife disarms I'd like to work on.
    They are in there. As with all things self-defense, there are various ways to achieve an end. Your instructor may
    modify or teach you something entirely different from the book content, may add to it-- who knows.
    My memory is not that sharp about this, but if you look at some of the level III stuff and the parts about "cavalliers," I think
    you'll get some ideas of knife disarms; most important of which is don't walk into the dang knife. (I know, that is what will get me in the real world. I just naturally try to move in and crowd my opponent. We are working on that.)

    Oh, and when they have you work on rear naked chokes, be careful. I almost choked someone out the other day without
    realizing it. I was not applying much pressure at all. The guy was a very fit tough 30 something. He was letting me practice
    some other stuff, which routine ended with the application of the choke. The instructor had to stop me by saying, "stop, he's going to pass out." I had no idea I was even doing something to him. I didn't even think I'd applied any meaningful pressure.
    And if you saw me, you'd think I was too old and frail to accomplish that.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    I took about a dozen krav classes from an instructor here locally. It was fantastic. After stretches and cardio, he would drill the basics into our minds for the first half of class, then work on two or three specialty or higher level moves, such as the disarming moves you mentioned. Using rubber guns, we learned very quickly how to disarm someone with a gun pointed at you from various positions. It was surprisingly simple and effective. Even when I was holding the gun (finger outside the trigger guard), and I knew the other person was going to try to take it away, it was impossible to hold onto the weapon.

    We learned how to get out of numerous choke holds, bear hugs, wrist grabs, etc. We learned how to block and counter a punch. The idea was that these were all situations you might actually encounter in a self defense situation, so there were no rules. Numerous kicks to the groin, shin scrapes, toe stomps, neck biting, etc. Whatever it takes for you to explode against your attacker, escape, and survive.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigHawk View Post
    Even when I was holding the gun (finger outside the trigger guard), and I knew the other person was going to try to take it away, it was impossible to hold onto the weapon.
    Yeah, the ones we did were very effective. Still haven't come close to getting the first one right, but hopefully it'll come. I thought to myself that I was determined to hold onto that weapon when I had it, but it's just dang near impossible with that handgun. It's so easy to apply torque in various directions by grabbing the slide.

    Rear naked choke: mental note to look up what that is.
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    I have been taking Krav Maga (Krav Maga Worldwide) for the last 1.5 yrs and absolutely love it. I had no martial arts background at all and had not been exercising regularly. I dropped some weight and learned some great defensive and offensive moves. It tries to be practical and is designed to be used to protect yourself not for a ring or points. Our classes are pretty structured and all the studio does it Krav Maga. I take separate weapons classes to work on stick, knife and gun defenses and fight class to practice sparring. All of this is in the regular classes but can take additional classes that are more focused. If you want to learn self defense then Krav Maga is fantastic. I am currently an orange belt and hope to test for green in a few months. Krav is not as much about belts as it is practical self defense, but the higher the belt the more you learn. Believe me when I tell you that even the first level will teach you a lot about self defense and give you a great workout. Enjoy!

  8. #22
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    I've studied martial arts for quite some time and can recommend Krav Maga as one of the best. Its important that you get some instruction from someone who knows the fundamentals as you can quickly develop bad habits training on your own. I recommend you video the instructors lessons as well as yourself working out. This is the quickest way to find your faults and you can review the correct technique as often as you like, slow it done, etc.

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    AT 69+ years old and out of shape with stiff hip joints and bad knees, I hadn't been in any kind of martial arts is over 20 years. I took a local class for several months. The local instructor took my limitations and stucturered my instruction around my abilities.

    Blocks, punches, take downs, defense, offense Etc. I wasn't able to do the ground and pound. I enjoyed the class. With the monthly fee we trained twice a week and I had unlimited access to the Nautilus Gym.

    I wish I had that instruction 50 years ago. I had some lessons in Okinawa, paid for by the USMC, some in the Highway patrol academy, some in POST and some in a couple of different civilian DOJO's

    I found that is wasn't a "SHOW" martial art where the instructor was obsessed with perfect form "Your wrist is 1/16 out of alignment " but was geared toward actual "street" self defense. Fast, down dirty and to the point. On some training we had full contact into pads, most kicks were towards the waist down, no flying head kicks

    A perfect Kata was when you responded and you "attacker" ended up on the floor with simulated disables IE: either a dislocation. something broken or unable to continue the attack. In the class we had several Border partrolman, Highway patrol officers and military personel getting ready to deploy.

    There were no belts, just great instruction. there were 3 "ranks" student, assistance instructor and instructor. To become either an assistant instructor or instructor you had to have a verifiable encounter where you used the Krav Maga instructions and were "NOT" the aggressor. Being the aggressor would get you removed from the class. AS you can determine most of the instructors were LEO's

    FWIW the owner/trainer/instructor also taught a MMA class
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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    Agreed on gun disarms. Something I'd like to know, but not focus on at the expense of other things. Knife disarms I'd like to work on. A gun can't hurt you (generally) as long as it's not pointed at you, so getting out of the way is really the most important step. Knives, however, can do some tricksy things.
    Regarding knife disarms.....

    There are different sides of the coin here. I've taken some classes (hap kido classes) that believe in disarming knives. While they are possible they can be very risky if you aren't very experienced. The other side is, just control them and who cares about the knife. Depending on the situation, you can either strike them and carry out softening techniques or access your weapon. This has been more of the approach for my Krav classes.

    After a little experience with both, if I find myself in a position where I can disarm them quickly I will. However, that is certainly not my main focus.

    As for gun disarms......

    They are very risky. We have spent several weeks working on handgun disarms in Krav. With that said, depending on the situation, if you can execute the basic principles (redirect, control, disarm with an attack or strikes inbetween if necessary) without failure, it MAY be a viable option. With that said, a lot can go wrong so even when proficient it can be risky.

    Regarding looking for the right school......

    When I was initially looking at different schools I personally was not interested in schools that focused a large portion of their classes on pt. I understand some of the value to it, however my feeling was I know how to exercise and put stress on my body already. I don't need to pay someone to do that for me. I also did not want to be in a class that would sometimes pair you with 15 year olds or women. There is no way I could have experienced the same realistic resistance or speed I have experienced against grown men when working on things such as ground work or even gun disarms for that matter. I want training to be as realistic as possible and I want it to be against others who are ideally close to as strong as me, better yet even stronger, while still learning to deal with those of different heights and reaches. This is just me, other people may disagree with my feelings but I feel I made the right decision for me.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    I can understand wanting to train with someone on par with your abilities for the most part, but the most likely attacker that 15-year-old girl is going to have to face will probably be a guy who is significantly larger and stronger than her. She also needs to know what it's like to go toe-to-toe with someone who's bigger and badder.

    My view on gun vs knife disarms is if I can get out of the line of fire of a fun and cause a misfire by controlling the weapon, it's out of the picture and I can use hand-to-hand skills against someone who wasn't expecting to have to do that. With a knife, it's always dangerous. I didn't nesessarily mean I wanted to learn to steal a knife from an attacker consistently, but like you said control it and hopefully be able to get in some strikes quick enough to take them out of commission.

    I'm still forming my philosophies on combat though. It could all change, I know that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beans View Post
    AT 69+ years old and out of shape with stiff hip joints and bad knees, I hadn't been in any kind of martial arts is over 20 years. I took a local class for several months. The local instructor took my limitations and stucturered my instruction around my abilities.

    Blocks, punches, take downs, defense, offense Etc. I wasn't able to do the ground and pound.
    That is about my situation though I have a different set of health issues related to age, and am your age as well. I'm glad
    you posted because sometimes I think I'm a bit too eccentric doing this stuff. Now I can safely say there is at least
    one other in my shoes. Hope your post and mine encourages some of the older people to "take advantage of their limitations"
    by learning to work with them and around them. I too have to go easy on the ground fighting. I get dizzy when I try to
    stand up afterwards. So we work out a short routine where I am able to stay on the ground instead of popping up and down.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    Apologies if this should be in off-topic. I found a Krav Maga studio in my area and am going to try to check it out this week. The guy seems legit and is registered with stateside Krav Maga organization. My wife and I both carry, but I know there are times when we can't or maybe we'll just get caught off-guard, so I don't want to get to the point where we rely completely on our firearms and forgo other defensive techniques. You can't take a firearm everywhere, but you can always carry your skills.

    Having no previous martial arts training, does anyone have any tips? What sort of expectations should I have from a Krav Maga professional so I know I'm not going to be learning some off-the-wall, useless garbage?
    Nothing wrong with starting out with Krav Maga at all as it is a reality based self-defense system. As a matter of fact, I plan on taking it once I retire from the military. Since you have never done any martial arts training before, make sure you are in good physical condition before you enroll in it or other self-defense program. Also, keep an open mind, think safety first, listen to the instructor, have fun, interact, and don't be afraid to ask questions (best to do that after the class is over).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    ...So we work out a short routine where I am able to stay on the ground instead of popping up and down.
    That part is easy for me. I can even do it for long periods of time.

    Oh, you mean fighting on the ground...
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    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Storm View Post
    Nothing wrong with starting out with Krav Maga at all as it is a reality based self-defense system. As a matter of fact, I plan on taking it once I retire from the military. Since you have never done any martial arts training before, make sure you are in good physical condition before you enroll in it or other self-defense program. Also, keep an open mind, think safety first, listen to the instructor, have fun, interact, and don't be afraid to ask questions (best to do that after the class is over).
    In shape I am, though I still hurt like heck after that first class. I think it'll be better going forward though, I tend to adapt to workouts pretty quick. Another class coming up Tuesday and I'll be bringing the wife. We'll see how that goes.
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