A quote that really made me think

This is a discussion on A quote that really made me think within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I found this quote on another forum and it hit me that it is probably one of the most accurate statements I have read so ...

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Thread: A quote that really made me think

  1. #1
    VIP Member
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    A quote that really made me think

    I found this quote on another forum and it hit me that it is probably one of the most accurate statements I have read so much that I added it to my signature line.

    "A first-rate man with a third-rate gun is far more effective, in every practical sense, than the other way around."

    There will always be banter back and forth about which gun, which ammo, which holster, grip, stance or underwear is the best most magical combination to defend yourself with and let us not forget the statistics that say which caliber to use or tactical cologne to wear to win a self defense encounter. In reality none of it makes any difference it has and always will be the man behind the gun with the skills, training and determination to survive that will be victorious.
    Ask a veteran of S.E. Asia, his enemy was often farmers and peasants who could not even read or write much less operate complex machinery but on a daily basis created casualties of US servicemen. It was not that they were better trained or equipped, they had other skills, determination, and the will to do what they did.

    I am not knocking anyone's beliefs, equipment or skill level I am simply trying to get some to think about what they are doing.

    If you are nervous about carrying, carry more! In the house, in the yard wherever get over it.
    If you only carry sometimes because you are in not danger here or there, STOP. Carry everywhere, everytime. You will not dictate the circumstances of a SD encounter the BG will.
    If you do not carry a round in the chamber start!
    It does not make any difference what Youtube video you have seen about the Israeli Modified whatever or Billy Bob's Home Defense Network.
    You will not have time nor the state of mind to draw, chamber a round and engage your target before he is on top of you at contact distances. The simple fact of life is if you are carrying a modern, name brand firearm it will not discharge unless something pulls the trigger so is therefore safe to carry with a round in the chamber.

    If you do not feel confident enough try this. Start with the holster off, chamber a round, holster the weapon and then put it all on as a unit, then leave it alone. The gun will not do tricks, come out of the holster on it's own or become possessed by demons. When you get home at night take the holster off as a unit, clear the weapon and repeat as needed.

    There is no gadget, toy, light, laser, trigger, grip or anything else that will take the place of pure determination and training. So often people try to substitute things for training. Want to lose weight? You don't have to exercise take this pill and you have to do nothing. This is the mentality that we are falling victim to.
    You dont have to train you went through your course and completed what was mandated and made a perfect score on the shooting portion. Of course you did not shoot your carry gun the recoil is to bad, ammo is to expensive, your new holster is not in yet, you shot a loaner .22 but it is all the same.
    Yes that is your God given, constitutional right and nobody is going to dictate when or how much training I will have, well the truth is no one should have to. If you cannot draw and fire making a head shot at 7 yards in a couple of seconds you better go back and practice somemore. The life of a loved one may depend on it.

    The problem is you are betting your life on those skills. Are they good enough? Could you rely on them to keep you alive? Learn to fight with your weapon not just shoot it. If you want to read and quote the statistics, great, then be prepared to shoot the BG to the ground because he did not get the memo about 2.1 rounds from a .22 is supposed to make him leave you alone.

    Quit relying on gimmicks and gadgets, get out and train, go shoot, buy an airsoft do something, because one day you will run into that first-rate guy with a third-rate gun and he will not be impressed with your magnum master blaster and custom made holster. He will simply take whatever he wants, up to and including your life, and go on about his business.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Excellent post, Tacman.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Great Post. I believe folks should take this to heart. Words of wisdom like this do not often come for free.....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Excellent! Thank God someone else is sounding off on this issue. I'd give this 5 likes if I could.
    We, have a responsibility to those people new to defensive pistolcraft to teach them the truth, damn the profits or corporations that cater to them.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    then be prepared to shoot the BG to the ground because he did not get the memo about 2.1 rounds from a .22 is supposed to make him leave you alone.
    Amen!!
    Kimbers are the guns you show your friends....Glocks are the ones you show your enemies.

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    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Outstanding post Tacman605....

    I was taught to approach MY SURVIVAL PRINCIPLES in this order:

    1. MINDSET - There are three battles you MUST win...They are the gunbattle, the court battle (criminal and civil), and the emotional battle......NEVER GIVE UP!

    2. TACTICS - Definition: skillful manipulation of time and distance in such a manner that you get a turn, but your adversary does not. Ideally, we maneuver in such a manner that we completely avoid a confrontation. If not, we maneuver in such a manner that our adversary is irrelevant, and finally if confrontation is inevitable, we take advantage of surprise and superior position to attack him where he is most vulnerable.

    3. SKILL - Train, Train, Train! Decide to be agressive enough, quickly enough. Have a plan...Have a back-up plan because the first one won't/didn't work. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived! Only hits count. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly. The faster you finish the fighT, the less shot you will get.

    4. GEAR - Choose a weapon that you are willing to bet your life on...because you are!!!
    Bark'n, JDE101, msgt/ret and 3 others like this.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

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    VIP Member Array jbum's Avatar
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    Excellent post!!!!

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    Ex Member Array Yoda's Avatar
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    David only had a sling with which to defeat Goliath.

    The best weapon is between your ears.
    tacman605 and Bad Bob like this.

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    Member Array Spirit4earth's Avatar
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    Good thread.

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    Yes, it IS a good and very worthwhile post.
    And ideally we would love for all gun owning citizens to become as highly proficient with a defensive firearm as is humanly possible.
    Unfortunately that is not reality based.
    Statistically (& of course) the better trained (and the more familiar with a firearm an individual is) the greater their chances for survival will be.

    But, there are untold numbers of times each year where a third rate individual with a third rate firearm manages to prevent, thwart, or end a deadly threat - often just by the mere display of a firearm.
    And (for sure) sometimes things end badly and sometimes not.


    When 89 Yr Old Grandma (now living alone) wakes up in bed because she hears noises downstairs.
    Do I want her to be able to grab her deceased hubbies gun and have it pointed at her bedroom door even though she has never personally trained with it and possibly has only "shot it maybe once or twice" when she was years younger?


    Yes, I do.

    SO the bottom line is that I am not espousing that morons own firearms and make a habit of being completely irresponsible with them.
    What I am saying is that - sometimes - the chances of a completely untrained person staying alive in a deadly threat scenario are greatly increased by that person having a firearm rather than not having a firearm.

    So when the "untrained" female is driving along at night with her young child strapped in the car seat has her vehicle break down on the side of the road and some obvious Bad Guy stranger stops and yelling what he intends to do with her & then starts beating on her drivers side window attempting to break the glass and drag her out - Do I want her to have the ability to reach into her purse and grab "the gun" that her boyfriend "just stuck in there" and have her point the muzzle in the right direction and crying and screaming - "close her eyes and pull the trigger" when the glass finally comes crashing in?


    Yes, I do.


    This is posted just to point out that not everything is black & white and "with or without" a firearm and "with or without" training things can always go two (or more) ways.

    Lady Luck always has her hand on the way any scenario will ultimately resolve itself.

    There will be times when the highly trained First Rate firearm aficionado packing a First Rate Firearm will be in a gun battle with the Third Rate Man who is packing a Third Rate Firearm and the Good Guy will Shoot On The Move and move his head right into the path of the mis-aimed bullets that the Third Rate Man just sprayed into his general direction.


    Sometimes the untrained person with a firearm is a disaster waiting to happen and sometimes the untrained with a firearm gets a pat on the head from an angel and things work out OK.


    I'll leave it at the fact that the chances that things will go the right way increase as the diligent training and firearm proficiency increase.
    Crowman and msgt/ret like this.

  12. #11
    New Member Array wmzjr's Avatar
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    "Always Carry, Never Tell"

    "..no ******* ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb ******* die for his country."
    General George S. Patton

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    Distinguished Member Array Elk Hunter's Avatar
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    Thanks for the post, the more determined is more likely to win. The more trained and determined has a higher rate of winning and survival.

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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    QKShooter, yes luck does play a role in any gunfight but if I am in one I want to be as good as I can possible be and will still take all the luck I can get.

    To carry a gun is one of those things that one never is as good as he or she can be. I find that the more I learn the more I know I have more to learn.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

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    No argument there. My post was not intended to be at all argumentative. I am quite PRO training and repetitive practice, dry-fire, etc.
    I really don't have any real disagreement with the OP either.
    It's just a fact though that only a certain relatively small percentage of gun "owners" will ever train at all let alone daily or weekly.
    Naturally I would rather that they would but, as long as any American is familiar with basic firearm safety/handling and safe firearm storage I would rather they had a firearm available to them than not.
    As long as they are not a danger to themselves or others.
    When...Home Invasion...the front door is in the process of being kicked in ~ if Joe Homeowner (without any razor honed gun handling skills) needs to rack the slide on his semi-auto to chamber a round before the bad guys rush in...Is that Ideal? Certainly it is not but, it's a better point and shoot option (for staying alive) than Grandpas old ball peen hammer and a kitchen knife.





    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    QKShooter, yes luck does play a role in any gunfight but if I am in one I want to be as good as I can possible be and will still take all the luck I can get.

    To carry a gun is one of those things that one never is as good as he or she can be. I find that the more I learn the more I know I have more to learn.

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    Member Array BroBud's Avatar
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    this thread is the reason I absolutely LOVE this forum.. look forward to reading posts, learning, and contemplating situations... great posts and comments. My two cents worth... know how, know when, know if you can.

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