Front Sight Firearms Training Institute Question

This is a discussion on Front Sight Firearms Training Institute Question within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was wondering what y'all knew about Front Sight Training Institute? I've heard some good things about it, but it seems like they do some ...

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    Member Array ericmt's Avatar
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    Front Sight Firearms Training Institute Question

    I was wondering what y'all knew about Front Sight Training Institute? I've heard some good things about it, but it seems like they do some sketchy things. At one point, when you went on their website, it said if you answered some questions about firearms correctly you would receive some free reports or something. However, you got the stuff even if you answered the questions wrong.

    Also, I got an email from them saying that if I pay $500 to become a lifetime member, I will have access to a number of their classes free of charge for life. This email also said to buy this because after the offer ends he will have "spectacular news" about what this is going to get you.

    I'm curious because these kind of tactics are pretty bizarre and what you would expect from an Internet company that was about to rip you off. I'm obviously not going to buy the membership, but was curious what y'all thought of this training place.

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    Ex Member Array Yankeejib's Avatar
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    The search engine is your friend.

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    JD
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    Reviews of Front Site seem to fall into four camps:

    1: Those who have never been to other training classes and love it
    2: Those who have never been to other training classes and did not like it
    3: Those that went to Front Site 1st, thought it was OK, took additional training elsewhere and won't go back to Front Site
    4: Those that have attended training before hand and thought it was a joke

    This is the most recent thread on them:
    Front Sight Firearms Training In Nevada

    Quote Originally Posted by danielf View Post
    Me and my father are taking the 4 day defensive firearm class at the end of the month. Has anyone else ever been there? Was there anything that you really like or didnt like thati shold be aware of?
    Quote Originally Posted by danielf View Post
    Sorry my bad. It was only for two days. My father got a first family cert form someone. THANK GOD, cause i wouldnt spend a freakin' dollar for that place! Im sorry, everyone has thier own shooting style but thier "weve tried it everyway possible and this is the best" bullcrap... Of all things the line coach kept tell me i reholster to fast. "you need to slow down one your holstering", he said...yeah well i know how to find my holster so im good thanks. It was basic ccw 8hr class stuff, and a bunch of tall tales. anyway, it was a watse of fuel and hotel bill. didnt learn a thing.... It was dumb. OH and the "focus on teh front sight, thats all that matters. why you think we call this place that" What? Really? Wow.....
    See more threads HERE


    Personally, I'd rather go elsewhere and avoid all the hub-bub.

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    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    I went to the 4 day Defensive handgun course in 2010. Did I attend a 4 day course and come out ready to fill in on my local SWAT team? Well, no of course not. But, did I come back with some skills honed, refined and tuned up--YES. Do they have their own style/protocol/SOP that they teach and want you to follow--yes--but what school doesn't????

    Now, I spent $85.00 for a registration fee, for four days of training. Was it worth it--yep!! Did I have fun while sharpening skills--yep!! Is there a sales pitch--yes, of course--what business doesn't market themselves?? Do you have to buy a membership--No! Also, after the first time attending, the staff does not expect you to have to sit thru the sales pitches again--you can run to town to get something to eat, you can do dry exercises on the range, you can take a nap......

    I am planning on attending a 4 day course this Fall. The most expensive part of the training is buying the ammo........
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    But wait! There's more...
    It's not sold in any store!
    And if you order today
    You get a Ginsu knife, and a Magic Ash tray!

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    cj
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    The 'take our test' thing to get free reports is primarily a method to harvest email addresses. Their advertising, marketing approach, and website all scream 3:00am infomercial and very outdated approaches. Once they've got your email or phone number, it's supposedly pretty hard to get OFF said list.

    That said, the facility itself is like a completely different world than their marketing arm. They created the curriculum based on the Modern Technique many years ago, and while they've pretty much perfected teaching it about as efficiently as possible, they haven't really done anything to try to update it toward more modern techniques. So they teach so many students at a time (there are hundreds there at any given day), they need everyone to conform to the same methodology in order to keep the class flowing and helping discrepancies to stand out...so they ask everyone to try it their way while in the class. So, if you're a truly experience shooter who shoots regularly, and you don't happen to use the Modern Technique, you'll probably be annoyed by the streamlined assembly line process.

    What they ARE good at is taking someone who's never shot a gun before and, in a few days, have them drawing from concealment and making multiple hits in a relatively short amount of time...not too bad when you consider that darn near every owned range I've been to prohibits working from a holster, shooting more than 1 shot in x seconds, or making head shots (have to protect their hangers). If I had to send someone somewhere that I knew they'd come away comfortable, safe, and competent enough to accurately put some lead onto a target, it's not a bad choice, especially considering that with a certificate, an entire trip of travel, food, lodging, ammunition, and the course tends to cost less than just the class fee of a similar basic level course at some of the other better known schools, and for many, that cost is a huge impact on their willingness to go.

    One huge drawback is their 'graduation' system. To get to their more advanced classes which get beyond the fundamentals (and I've heard stretch beyond Modern Technique), you have to take their test and do much of it their way to get a passing score. As a result, nearly every review you'll see about handgun courses are for the basic 4 day which ends with this test. Miss something on the test (a gust of wind across the desert plain screwing up a concealed draw, doing a different step than their specific malfunction drills, etc.) and you're stuck repeating the basic courses until you can 'graduate' their way.

    So people I've seen who DID appreciate the course have been new shooters, non-gunnies who had had some training in the past (police academy, military, etc.), and even a truly awesome shooter who was a SWAT instructor and didn't have a shot that I saw stray outside of a 2" circle who seemed to be there to pick up training approaches and ideas and had a blast doing it.

    So in summary of my opinion, if you haven't been to a class before, you could do worse than hitting a 4 day class (I wouldn't bother with the 2 day as it's probably on par with a basic CCW class, starting at the 'this is the dangerous end of a firearm')...but calculate carefully: If you're local to a reputable school, it may end up cheaper to just go there. If you do go, go with an open mind...there's always something you can learn. Their intro course is really not the place to break their mold and try to argue why isosceles and thumbs-forward is better...for a few days, try it their way, take anything you like and integrate it and forget the rest. And there are definitely worse ways to spend some time than on a decent shooting range!
    Chaplain Scott likes this.

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    There are better options out there that actually care about teaching you useful skills and not just separating you from your money.

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    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    The wife and I went to the 2 day defensive handgun course. Really enjoyed it and thought their teaching style was fine.

    From previous post - Of all things the line coach kept tell me i reholster to fast. "you need to slow down one your holstering", he said...yeah well i know how to find my holster so im good thanks.
    My opinion - anyone that gets uptight because they want him to slow down their reholstering is not overly concerned with safety. I haven't found a scenario to reholster quickly. For me, it speaks volumes about the reviewer.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

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    I fall into a different camp of "I have never been to Front Sight and can't go to Front Sight because I am banned". You see I commited the ultimate sin I questioned Dr. Pizza guy on a video he presented. Other also have been banned from there for questioning or making comments about Front Sight or Pizza Guy.

    The video I questioned showed a young police officer several years ago being shot to death on dash cam and being the great chiropractor that he is used it as a marketing ploy to get people to come to front sight basically stating if the officer had been a graduate of Front Sight he would have survived. I have no problem with using videos as training tools, but when you use the death of someone to market your "shoot better than a SWAT cop or Navy Seal" school it is a little over the top.

    Here is the link to a Glock Talk member who was banned

    So, I am banned from FrontSight! - Glock Talk

    I cannot say a lot about the training, they may have great instructors teaching, I will say though that many of the techniques they teach that the good Doc claims as his own are not. The training as stated can be basic and you will do it their way. Some like it others hate it your call.

    Piazza scamed a lot of money from a lot of people and then defaulted on paying it back he simply runs a big ponzi scheme, selling stuff that is not there, and has no ethics in regards to business.

    Any training is good training as long as you can seperate the wheat from the chaff if the price is right go and enjoy the training but I think once you go if you ever to somewhere else you may not go back.

    Not knocking anyone who goes or has gone. If you enjoy it and get something out of it great.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Member Array ericmt's Avatar
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    Front Sight Firearms Training Institute is a scam.

    I guess now I'll never be able to go :)

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    New Member Array Jlamphere's Avatar
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    A buddy and I went out there for a four day pistol school in November and had a very positive experience. The email marketing they do can be over the top, but I just route those emails to a folder and look at them when and if I get a chance. We spent $85.00 each for the class and for that price found significant value in the course. I would not spend the $2000.00 they have listed for a four day course, but I am not sure I would spent that to go to Bill Rodger's school, Gun Site, or Thunder Ranch either.

    If you go with an attitude that you want to learn and practice, then you will have a good time. If you go with a closed mind about training theories that may be different that what you like, you might be put off. I was always treated with great respect and courtesy and the instructors we had all had been or were individuals that had been on the front lines and brought that experience to the class.

    If the price were right ($200.00 or so) I would go again. You can usually find certificates on ebay for 1st time students for $80 to $150. It is a cheap flight to Vegas and the hotel rooms in Pahrump can be had for $50 to $100 per night. That is pretty cheap for good quality training.

    Just my experience, your mileage may vary.

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    Not knocking anyone who goes or has gone. If you enjoy it and get something out of it great.

    As stated above. There are simply much better training out there, but if you got something out of it fantastic that is all that matters.

    Pizza guy is a thief plain and simple and I simply refuse to support his endeavors.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Distinguished Member Array Elk Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericmt View Post
    Front Sight Firearms Training Institute is a scam.

    I guess now I'll never be able to go :)
    Really, you say you know nothing about Front Sight read a few comments and make a decission.

    I would like to know the whole story abot tacman getting banned. I believe at Front Sight you can use a certificate to go to your first class, if you try to use a certificate to go to a second class they reject you. Yep they want money for the second class. I suspect that may have been what happened.

    As far as getting banned for a posting, I believe it would be pretty hard for anyone to track me down and connect my name and address with a user profile on DC or any of the other forums. I dont buy it.

    The initial class at Front Sight is for the masses, one of the objectives is to take people from all levels and get them shooting. Some will be better than others tacman is an operator protecting people in a very dangeours part of the world, he better be good. I am sure he is better than many me included. At the end of the four day defensive handgun class you shoot for score, a few people score distingish grad, others grad, and still others got to participate. You have to shoot distingished graduate in order to move to the next level, FS does not want beginners in the advanced classes.

    Here's my chalange, go to EBAY buy one of the certificates for $100 and go take the training. Let me know when you are going to be there, if you shoot Distinguished Grauate, email me a copy of the DG certificate and I will give you the $100 you paid for the certificate.

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    Elk Hunter. Connecting a screen name, email to a name is not that hard with the right system to do it with. On most applications it asks for your email address so it would be a simple matter of maintaining a database of users that you would not want to attend.

    The messages and emails that Piazza and I exchanged were not pleasant in the end was basically he wanted nothing further to hear from me nor my opinions and I was not welcome in his world. The more I researched him the more I disliked what I found. Some of his advertising scams make even a used car salesman cringe and that is what turns a lot of people away.
    If you have had good experiences there great. The training and instructors may be great for an entry level shooter but each dollar spent with this guy furthers his enterprises.

    I made no effort to hide my screen name or my email address from him so there is not doubt that he would remember me. He has filed suit against individuals that linked him to Scientology and gun forums such as Glocktalk which has a turbulent history with him. All you have to do is google his name or Front Sight and it will come up.

    Your offer is fantastic I hope someone takes you up on it. I offered a Tactical Response course to a member on here if he would go but it did not work out for him.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elk Hunter View Post
    Really, you say you know nothing about Front Sight read a few comments and make a decission.

    I would like to know the whole story abot tacman getting banned. I believe at Front Sight you can use a certificate to go to your first class, if you try to use a certificate to go to a second class they reject you. Yep they want money for the second class. I suspect that may have been what happened.

    As far as getting banned for a posting, I believe it would be pretty hard for anyone to track me down and connect my name and address with a user profile on DC or any of the other forums. I dont buy it.

    The initial class at Front Sight is for the masses, one of the objectives is to take people from all levels and get them shooting. Some will be better than others tacman is an operator protecting people in a very dangeours part of the world, he better be good. I am sure he is better than many me included. At the end of the four day defensive handgun class you shoot for score, a few people score distingish grad, others grad, and still others got to participate. You have to shoot distingished graduate in order to move to the next level, FS does not want beginners in the advanced classes.

    Here's my chalange, go to EBAY buy one of the certificates for $100 and go take the training. Let me know when you are going to be there, if you shoot Distinguished Grauate, email me a copy of the DG certificate and I will give you the $100 you paid for the certificate.
    This is why I would never attend, attitudes like this in the training industry IMO are bad for the students. The other issue is, fighting with a gun. Why is it so important to them to have you shoot like a marksman????
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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