Close Contact Distance Shooting

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Thread: Close Contact Distance Shooting

  1. #1
    Member Array PhoenixTS's Avatar
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    Close Contact Distance Shooting


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    OK. He kept his left hand away. Both before and after presenting the weapon. Good. But he did look shocked. Is that you? Just kidding.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Looks cool but my 2 cents:
    1. Everything looks cool and a time saver if you are OC'ing!
    2. Not impressed when you are 'ready' for the attack
    3. As he is stepping back he should be extending his arms and acquiring the sights in case the BG is still up or their are other BG's. Some might disagree with that but I never saw him at full extension.
    4. I like it when they actually do a demo and it is a cold shot (no practice draws, no dry runs, wearing a jacket or CC'ing somehow.Just like it would be in real life)

    Our first shot everyday at the range, or training was a cold shot. That is the shot that will count. Warming up, dry firing, takes away a lot! That is the only way to know how your training is progressing. Then you train and work on whatever for the day. I know it is a video by a vendor but quite honestly, about everyone on this forum can do what he did if they practiced a bit on their own.

    Boy, am I grumpy this morning!

    Oh, where was the photographer w/ no body armor next to the target? Sorry, I just can't let that go LOL
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    [
    QUOTE=suntzu;2240889]Looks cool but my 2 cents:
    1. Everything looks cool and a time saver if you are OC'ing!
    2. Not impressed when you are 'ready' for the attack
    3. As he is stepping back he should be extending his arms and acquiring the sights in case the BG is still up or their are other BG's. Some might disagree with that but I never saw him at full extension.
    4. I like it when they actually do a demo and it is a cold shot (no practice draws, no dry runs, wearing a jacket or CC'ing somehow.Just like it would be in real life)
    1. Yep
    2. Yep
    3. Yep
    4. Yep

    What he said....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Looks cool but my 2 cents:
    1. Everything looks cool and a time saver if you are OC'ing!
    2. Not impressed when you are 'ready' for the attack
    3. As he is stepping back he should be extending his arms and acquiring the sights in case the BG is still up or their are other BG's. Some might disagree with that but I never saw him at full extension.
    4. I like it when they actually do a demo and it is a cold shot (no practice draws, no dry runs, wearing a jacket or CC'ing somehow.Just like it would be in real life)
    1. Agreed
    2. I think different drills help accomplish different goals. Often ttp's need to be broken down at the most basic level. With that said, while fof would be nice to see that is obviously not the goal/focus of the drill.
    3. He only took a few steps back and in that range I'd rather be in a #3 position (if the threat was still standing) rather than a compressed low ready and you certainly do not need to acquire your sites at those distances to get effective hits CM in the #3. #4 position (or full extention) would be asking for trouble if bg was still in the fight I think. If he was really putting it "all together" I'd like to see him follow his threat to the ground, ensure threat is out of the fight while moving (if not behind cover), keep the firearm close to the body while moving and scanning, then top off if there is no additional immediate threats. Again, this drill focus may not have been about bringing it all together and have a different focus.
    4. Agreed 100%!

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    AOK
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    I should clarify a little more from my last post based on what I see in the video.

    I think if he was still fighting the bg as he backed up he is better off fighting from the #3 than the #4 at the distances shown. However, based on his very rapid scan it appears the drill is assuming the initial threat is down. What I don't like is he doesn't follow the bg down to the ground and ensure he is out of the fight. When he does his scan I'd personally prefer to be in a more compressed position for retention purposes as he is demonstrating in this video in case somebody comes up "out of nowhere" and attacks me or goes for my gun.

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    Try Eating a Hotdog or hamburger and then wait for Buzzer JMO ; )
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    As several posters have pointed out, it's one thing to do a drill that is "set up" and you have the ability to draw from OC, and another to do the drill, not knowing when the buzzer will sound, and carrying as you would in a concealed carry environment, with a cover garment, perhaps a package in your arm. It's all great training however on the fundamentals, now just take it to the next bar. JMO
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    This is just a demo of close contact without a strike. Will post one from concealment shortly. Here's one with follow-up shots:



    Thanks for watching.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixTS View Post
    This is just a demo of close contact without a strike. Will post one from concealment shortly. Here's one with follow-up shots: 2 Close Contact shots + 8 Rounds Retreating - Under 3 Seconds - Maani - YouTube

    Thanks for watching.
    Sorry if you thought I was nit picking....oh I was LOL. I do understand the intent. I liked the way we were trained from day one though. Guess it is hard to change after all the years. When we first started learning to carry concealed we carried every day in class or other training. And we learned step one through whatever. And every drill, or training we did that would entail drawing concealed we did it that way. It kept anyone from 'cheating' or getting bad habits by practicing step 3 or 4 (squeezing the trigger) with out having to push aside a garment and do a proper concealed draw. Just prefer it that way. I am just talking about my particular experience and not speaking bad of other training methods. But we would never start a drill with our hand almost on the butt of our weapon if it was a drill with a BG that close. Not realisitc. It was taught it gave a false sense of ability doing it that way. But of course that training was far different than teaching the populace on SD. Any training is worthwhile! And I did say I was grumpy LOL. I recommend everybody I know to go to a professional school to get real training. Unfortuanelty, even those that can afford it blow it off.

    That is all! I enjoyed the other videos.

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    Member Array PhoenixTS's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, not many take concealed carry classes in California since we are not blessed by the "concealed carry Gods". I hear what you're saying though...and you're not grumpy:) We have a concealed carry class coming up and I will post videos. Thanks again.

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    how does this transition to real life?

    as has been mentioned, no cover garmet

    and if one (and his friend plus their lookout) were to be that close to me
    and i have a cover garmet...this drill is not going to benifit me

    now--if im wearing a vest with a 642 in it and my hand is in the pocket clasping the gun--

    now when the buzzer sounds--which would be when he reaches and perhaps even gets his hands on me--
    i shoot through the jacket/vest pocket. and while moving back i aquire my strong side gun.

    just a way thats kept me safe for 4 decades, though the only holes in my clothing made were in practice.
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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    I have to question going for the gun if you are that close to the BG without making room first. Yes you may be fast but BG that close can foul the draw and you are fixated on getting the gun out. Just because you have a gun does not mean the gun is the answer everytime.

    Looks cool but, to me, looks like gaming and gaming can get you killed in a gunfight. My 2 cents
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    Really need to see times from a practical everyday concealed gun and holster for warm weather (such as IWB or even tucked carry).

    If a BG was stupid enough to get that close, might be faster/safer to deflect his gun arm away and up with the offhand first, then rotate away from his gun while drawing to shoot. Of course, if you need the offhand to pull aside concealing clothing, then that won't work. At that distance, it is almost a hand to hand confrontation. So drills to simulate could be helpful.

    Like CC carries, having and firing a shrouded hammer J-frame from a jacket pocket is stealthy and fast. It's a polite and discreet way for me to answer the door to strangers with my M38. (kind of interesting to see the powder burns on practice jackets).

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    AOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    I have to question going for the gun if you are that close to the BG without making room first. Yes you may be fast but BG that close can foul the draw and you are fixated on getting the gun out. Just because you have a gun does not mean the gun is the answer everytime.

    Looks cool but, to me, looks like gaming and gaming can get you killed in a gunfight. My 2 cents
    I agree 100%. Regardless of what tool you want to bring into the fight, unless you take the initiative you are likely going to have to earn the opportunity with h2h skills to deploy said tool.

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