Speed vs Accuracy: which is more important to you when Training - Page 3

Speed vs Accuracy: which is more important to you when Training

This is a discussion on Speed vs Accuracy: which is more important to you when Training within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Calling45 Speed. Because most civil defensive situations are close anyway. Speed is subjective to distance. Do not count on the encounter being ...

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Thread: Speed vs Accuracy: which is more important to you when Training

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calling45 View Post
    Speed.
    Because most civil defensive situations are close anyway.
    Speed is subjective to distance. Do not count on the encounter being close. The BG didnt get the memo on how things were going to go down....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......


  2. #32
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calling45 View Post
    Speed.
    Because most civil defensive situations are close anyway.
    The fast draw does not work every well in real life. You may be the fastest draw and even get the first hit but if you stand still, draw and shoot you'll have about a 1 in 100 chance of going home to your family. You most likely will see both you and the BG needing 6 to carry them.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  3. #33
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit4earth View Post
    A question about point-and-shoot: do you have any tips other than the obvious (aim, shoot, note poi and hand position, replicate and fire without using sights). How to shorten the learning curve?
    Best advice I can give you is get to one of these classes. You will come away from the 2 day class amazed at what you can do with a gun. Other than taking the class read all you can that Roger Phillips writes about the subject. He has a book and DVD, while they are both good the class is the best and fastest way to learn the art of point shooting.

    Suarez International Point Shooting Progressions
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    I believe the first vid is of Jerry Miculek and, at 4:30 min, another guy named Travis Tomasie. Yes, they're very fast (and accurate), but everything that has been said about smooth, efficiency of motion can be seen in (all of) these vids.

    World's Fastest Everything
    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Ben Franklin

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  5. #35
    Member Array chasbo00's Avatar
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    Here is an easy-to-do drill I've been working on. Since it uses a fixed 5-second par time, a shot timer is not needed - someone can merely call out the start and stop times. A low ready start is used because several ranges don't allow working from a holster. The drill is mainly designed to measure how well you can control your carry gun while shooting rapidly, but it also measures combat accuracy at a minimum speed of less than one second per shot. Most who have tried it with their carry guns state that it's not as easy as they thought it would be.


    The Defensive Handgun Control Drill

    Starting position is the low ready (pistol loaded and pointed down at 45 degree angle, safety off, trigger finger outside trigger guard)
    Fire 5 rounds
    Within 5 seconds
    From a distance of 3, 7 or 15 yards
    At an 8.5 x 11 inch sheet of paper
    Repeat 3 times (15 rounds total)

    Performance levels:

    Advanced – From 15 yds, all 15 rds on paper, all runs 5 sec or less
    Intermediate – From 7 yds, all 15 rds on paper, all runs 5 sec or less
    Basic – From 3 yds, all 15 rds on paper, all runs 5 sec or less

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    Slow is smooth, smooth is fast

  7. #37
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    this is almost a chicken/egg thing.
    you should train often so you can attain and maintain the skill set necessary to place your rounds on the target as fast as possible with every shot.
    the operative words are train and fast.
    speed kills but it has to be on target

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    I dont push myself to fail... I dont ant that failure floating around in my head. I just try to maintain my skill level.

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    In most cases drawing and firing should be two separate things. Its not always like an old western gunfight where you draw and fire instantly. The way I see it is that if you practice quickly bringing your weapon into action it then gives you more time to put it on the target. Two different actions.

    Or, as in the past I could just be full of it.

    Michael

  10. #40
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Ben Franklin

    NRA Life

  11. #41
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post

    Or, as in the past I could just be full of it.

    Michael
    ^^ this
    mlr1m likes this.

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    I dont push myself to fail... I dont ant that failure floating around in my head. I just try to maintain my skill level.
    Thats where we are different. I will push my self to fail, so that I have the knowledge of what needs to be done to get better. For me, my skill level is never good enough.....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Business View Post
    Speed comes first. How fast one can process whats going on, how fast one reacts, how fast one can draw...that all accounts for nothing if you can't hit the broad side of a barn. Incorporate both in your training.
    I couldn't disagree more except in the context of what Eagleks says.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
    Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.
    Wyatt Earp
    Here's a man who knows from what he speaks.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    [Y]ou can be Wyatt Earp and Wild Bill all rolled into one, and still suffer the Any Given Sunday syndrome; that's just reality, right there. Nevertheless, that's not going to stop me from doing my honest dues, in hopes that I will be just that much faster than the bad-guys.
    Wild Bill's assassination came on a Wednesday and had more to do with his breaking his habit of sitting with his back to the wall than with speed or accuracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    Accuracy takes precedence over speed. Shot placement wins gunfights.
    Speed is derived from economy of motion, not moving faster.
    Speed is a natural by-product of practice.
    Shoot one shot at a time. Each one is the most important.
    Excellent advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    So far, I think First Sgt has said it best, if perhaps a bit too succinctly. Allow me to see if I can expand on his comments.

    Several of you have posted answers that address how to evaluate your performance by pushing to the point of failure.
    That is a good training technique for evaluation but does not address how or what to train. The question "Speed vs Accuracy: which is more important to you when Training", is best answered by looking at the hierarchy of training goals: 1st. Accuracy, 2nd. Speed, 3rd. Power. This is true of both armed and unarmed combat.

    Consider: First Sgt said, "Speed is a natural by-product of practice."

    I would only amend this to say proper practice. What we do is create a conditioned response wherein we cut the need to think out of the loop. The body then executes the trained movements while the brain continues to assess the situation. If we have trained perfectly with exacting precision, each move will be smooth and efficient. Smooth and efficient leads to fast.

    If you are not accurate enough you are dead. Of course the same is true of speed. So, how accurate do you have to be and how fast do you have to be. Accurate enough to hit your target and fast enough to do it before your opponent.

    There is one other thing here. What do we mean by accuracy. There is accuracy on the target, and then there is the accuracy of your movements which enable the accurate targeting. This is what I mean by first be accurate: Proper clearing of the cover garment; proper grip on the weapon; proper movement through the phases of presentation; proper targeting; and proper trigger press.

    Power: Only when you have mastered the first two should you try to put more power into the strike. In this case the equivalent would be going to a larger caliber or magnum load.

    I could go on, but you get the idea: Accuracy first. The speed will come naturally with the proper practice of accuracy.
    Great post, as usual, Hoganbeg. PhoenixTS, you say, says it more succinctly. SpencerB says it most succinctly, "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast," a quote attributed to great and legendary fighters.

    Not only this, but, as others have said, shooting on the move is critical.

    Phoenix Tactical can expect a visit from this local, soon.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  14. #44
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    on the streets, slow is dead

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    on the streets, slow is dead
    "Slow" refers to practice. There is no sense of speed in muscle memory. Like Hoganbeg said, get the moves in muscle memory to free the mind. Tai Chi = the supreme ultimate.
    Speed and accuracy are separate but must be one to win. Dig?
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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