Have you continued training or sought training since getting your CCW?

Have you continued training or sought training since getting your CCW?

This is a discussion on Have you continued training or sought training since getting your CCW? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Since receiving your permit how many here have sought out professional training or continued to train realistically for a SD encounter? This could include shooting ...

View Poll Results: Have you continued or sought training since getting your CCW?

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  • Yes, I realistically train on a regular basis.

    48 77.42%
  • I train sometimes nothing really physical though.

    9 14.52%
  • No need to train further I am comfortable in my ability and not trying to be Rambo.

    5 8.06%
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Thread: Have you continued training or sought training since getting your CCW?

  1. #1
    VIP Member
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    Have you continued training or sought training since getting your CCW?

    Since receiving your permit how many here have sought out professional training or continued to train realistically for a SD encounter? This could include shooting in combat orientated matches, realistic hand to hand classes, force on force training and so on.

    I am not talking about going to the range to shoot but real training. This can also be expanded to physical training, mindset, tactics anything that relates to your survival.

    Please be honest with yourself and avoid answering with a question like "Well it all depends on what you mean by training?". We all know what training is folks and it is not going to the range to shoot slow fire at a bullseye target at 7 yards then declaring "Oh looky what I can do".
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013


  2. #2
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    This poll doesn't have enough options. If I want to be truthful I'd have to pick an option between 1 and 2.

    My answer is that I train to draw/shoot/move regularly and I have a pretty good fitness routine. But I can't honestly say that I train to fight or as the poll says "Yes, I realistically train on a regular basis".

    To me there is too much money and time involved in "Yes, I realistically train on a regular basis". I'd like to train more but I just don't have the time or money to do everything I'd like to do.
    Spirit51 likes this.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  3. #3
    Member Array Walden's Avatar
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    ^^^ Same
    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." - St. Augustine

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    #1.

    I honestly try as best I can - my solo range time, unfortunately, is limited to only the very fundamentals of marksmanship, but I pay good money to get out there and do realistic training in a number of different contexts.

    I have no military or law-enforcement training/background. I take legal concealed-carry very seriously because I want to be sure that *if* I had to pull that firearm (or in any other way be forced to defend myself or my loved-ones), that I can say - to myself, my conscience - that I've honestly tried my best to do it right.
    Spirit51 likes this.

  5. #5
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    Guys training to draw, shoot and move is realistic training. I understand that classes can get expensive in both time and money.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    tacman605...Let me see if I can help some folks out by simply going over the minimal training that I do...Then perhaps some will be able to relate and give an honest answer.

    1. Dry fire (to attempt to perfect trigger control and muscle memory for such), practice draw and presentation (to make sure that IF the time comes that I need to present my weapon in a SD situation, I can do so simply because I've practiced. This practice includes my cover garment. There is no need to practice draw and presentation unless you do so in the same way you would be carrying IF the SHTF) , practice draw and presentation incorporating movement (again, with cover garment, but this time getting off the X while drawing, presenting, gaining sight picture). All of this can be safely done in your living room, garage, back yard, wherever...And, best of all, it's cheap, and doesn't require any money whatsoever, only an investment of time...

    2. I watch videos of the "experts" in concealed carry and self defense. I listen and try to absorb their knowledge as they lecture/demonstrate. Sometimes pausing the video in order to do (dryfire) what they have just gone over. The only ones that look at me strangely would be my wife, if she's around, and the dogs. But, the dogs are used to it!

    3. I read. Books written my those in the know. Massad Ayoob, Gabe Suarez, etc. Books such as On Combat and On Killing by Grossman. Books like Surgical Speed Shooting by Stanford and Principles of Personalf Defense by Cooper. There is MUCH information to be gleaned, especially on mindset, technique, etc. Then use what you've gleaned to improve yourself.Things such as Mindset, Situational Awareness and Tactics can be presented in books to the point that YOU can understand the concept and practice from there. The same with videos.

    4. Range time. I'm fortunate that I am a member of a lil country range, run bye good ole boys, that allows me to not only punch holes, but to move and shoot. For those that can't move and shoot, then master punching the holes with accuracy. IF you can draw and shoot, do that. IF you can't draw, then go from low ready to firing position etc. Remember, practice your scans...F.A.S.T (Fight-take care of business, Assess-is the threat stopped, Scan-do you need to shoot anyone else, TopOff-prepare and make sure you have reloaded for the next emergency) MANY folks fail to remember to scan. This can be done when dryfiring in your home, on a range, etc. Always try to scan 360, but at a minimum 180 if your range doesn't allow a 360.

    5. Professional Training. I try to participate in some kind of professional training a minimum of once a year. I encourage EVERYONE who has not had professional training, to make every effort to save up, pick up cans and sell em, but get the money to take some professional training from a reputable school/instructor. It doesn't always have to be from the same school. There is an advantage to experiencing training with different instructors. Then incorporate what you've learned to fit your style. Just approach any and all training with an OPEN MIND. Do it their way when you train with them! Who knows, it might be better than your way.

    6. Medical knowledge. How many of you have a basic medical kit to take to the range, to keep in your vehicle? How many can use the items in it? How many of you have considered taking a medical course to improve your knowledge?

    7. Your gear. Do you keep it in top notch condition? Do you clean your weapon after using it?
    Do you evaluate what you carry, why you carry it, and do you need anything else or are you carrying too much? What do others carry, and why do they carry it, and could it help you?

    Folks, if you keep your eyes and ears open you can learn much. Just reading on these forums can help. Try googling some of the better know instructors that have videos on you tube. Watch some of their videos. Learn from them.

    I guess I've ranted enough...JMO
    NH_Esau likes this.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  7. #7
    Member Array rick21's Avatar
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    For me, Force on Force is realistic training. LIke Suarez says, "shooting cardboard is like hitting a heavy bag". Meaning, shooting cardboard only one part of training, unfortunately for whatever reason it's all most people get to do.

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    ^ I definitely think that FoF needs to be a part of one's training regimen. There's no way around it.

    That said, I've never had any simulator time, so I'd like to hear thoughts on whether if such simulations can substitute for FoF.

    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    tacman605...Let me see if I can help some folks out by simply going over the minimal training that I do...Then perhaps some will be able to relate and give an honest answer.
    ^ The only one where I sorta fail is #4 - moving-and-shooting is unfortunately not in the cards for me, at the ranges I frequent... Which is why I usually go overboard with #5.

    There's a current thread on M4Carbine's "Training" sub-Forum that has gotten me re-thinking my approach to training, but I think that given my lack of past experiences and my currently rather shallow pool-of-knowledge, it will still be a couple of years before I reach the level where I am comfortable renting out private range-time with like-minded/goal'ed friends. For the time being, I still need to be instructed, in terms of the skill set.

    I also very much favor the learning from different schools/instructors mindset. I have a bucket-list.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array NH_Esau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    tacman605...Let me see if I can help some folks out by simply going over the minimal training that I do...Then perhaps some will be able to relate and give an honest answer...
    Some of the best advice I've ever been given (and I've been given a lot):
    1. When an NCO speaks, listen.
    2. When a Chief [or Shirt/Top] speaks, shut up and listen.

  10. #10
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    I think I'm done with shooting for bragging rights. Since building my own range, it has become 'shoot & scoot' with time becoming balanced with accuracy. I save the surgical shooting for the rifles these days.

    There is a big hole in my skill-sets in regards to medical knowledge. Our range is remote, and having my son out there with me has brought this to the forefront.
    __________________________________
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  11. #11
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    I guess what I usually do is geared more toward shooting games and not toward an actual fight. It's the realism that's hard to simulate on a range.

    There was a class in NE Ohio last year that I really wanted to go to. It was defensive pistol in the 3 to 5 feet range. I really wanted to go but I couldn't get the time off of work. The class was about actual hands on fighting techniques and techniques to employ a gun at spitting distances. I would have liked to learn some of those things but life as a dad often gets in the way.

    My plan for this year is to buy a blue gun and start working with a buddy on some hands on type stuff.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    I guess what I usually do is geared more toward shooting games and not toward an actual fight. It's the realism that's hard to simulate on a range.
    Don't downplay the gaming aspect of it, though - for working the gun and shooting accurately at-speed, there's a lot to be said for gaming. After a class with Vogel and a few other competition shooters two weekends ago (and some prodding by friends), I've decided to start competing either later this year or early the next, to improve on the pure "gunning" skills.

    The thing that I've been cautioned on, though, is to approach gaming "in-context," so that it can supplement my "defensive"-oriented training. That I need to realize my own goals, and that in doing so, it may not allow me to achieve the fastest times possible. For me, this is not an issue, as I do not plan on competing to win: rather, I want to learn the efficiency of motion.

    There was a class in NE Ohio last year that I really wanted to go to. It was defensive pistol in the 3 to 5 feet range. I really wanted to go but I couldn't get the time off of work. The class was about actual hands on fighting techniques and techniques to employ a gun at spitting distances. I would have liked to learn some of those things but life as a dad often gets in the way.
    ^ The Suarez group is offering quite a bunch of classes in Zanesville this year. Unfortunately, they are a bit too far for me to travel to (I have pretty much the same limitations as you do ), but the good news is that they are hosting the "Advanced Close Range Gunfighting" course at Pierpont on August 11-12. I am trying to clear my schedule for that class, so maybe I'll see you there? I don't see any offerings for their "0 to 5 ft." class, that's close by, though.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Realistic training with professional instructors, 4 times a year. Training in between, 3 times a week. Drills such as, draw, dry fire, FoF, weapons manipulations, etc.....I dont kid myself, enough is never enough. Even as an instructor, I am still a student.....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Absolutely. Hand to hand, edged weapons, carbine, vehicle tactics, low light/no light, active shooter, VIP protection, etc. I continue to train regularly as well as instruct. Now, this isn't all for personal defense, part of it has to do with work, but it still applies.

    I don't care what one does for a living, continues training is extremely important. I would highly recommend some hand to hand training as well.

    My daily dry practice includes trigger control, draw and move, reloads, etc. for pistol and carbine. Live fire 3 or more times a week and I mix it up with drills, 80% or more involve movement. I don't shoot for tight groups though I do shoot for fast, accurate hits.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    I would highly recommend some hand to hand training as well.
    ^ +1. Just a few unscripted FoF sessions where we were in usual civilian street-clothes, in our street "setups," was all it took to open my eyes to the need to have good basic unarmed combatives skills to call upon.

    One more thing is that I wanted to tag along with is that dry-fire practice is also critical. As with many above, I do quite a bit, but only recently was I "re-educated" on its importance when a championship shooter confided to us that he doesn't really shoot all that many rounds, live-fire - but that he is *constantly* dry-practicing, and that he actually places more importance on dry-fire practice than live-fire, in terms of really drilling in the fundamentals.

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