How many members here can accomplish this drill?

This is a discussion on How many members here can accomplish this drill? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OWB at the range, I can do it pretty consistently our to 7 yards, typically with a second round within two seconds. IWB, which is ...

View Poll Results: From CC can you draw, fire and effectiely hit the target in 2 seconds?

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  • Yes

    166 64.84%
  • No

    18 7.03%
  • Never tried before

    67 26.17%
  • Don't need to

    5 1.95%
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Thread: How many members here can accomplish this drill?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array bklynboy's Avatar
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    OWB at the range, I can do it pretty consistently our to 7 yards, typically with a second round within two seconds. IWB, which is how I typically carry, it varies somewhat depending on what I am wearing, but I am still close to two seconds

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  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Yes and it's all done while GOTX (Getting Off The X). The question I want to ask is "can you do it without getting shot yourself"? Because if you are not moving you are most likely getting shot. Yep you can make those hits but if he hits you too you both die. BIG WIN RIGHT!

    Can't draw or move at your range then do dry gun practice in your bedroom. Dry fire practice has far more advantages than most think.
    NH_Esau and lyz_grace like this.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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  4. #33
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    I voted "yes," but I think the question/poll needs to be quantified a bit better - a distance as well as target size along, with method of concealment, should've been specified.

    From personal experience, in still being a relatively new shooter with relatively little training (I know that some would argue this, but in all honesty, this is how I truly feel), I think that anyone - bar either some very specific physical handicaps or the use of "deep concealment" gear - who puts their will to it can quite quickly and easily achieve the benchmark that was the Gunsite "School Drills" standard (1.5 seconds for one round to the head at three yards, and 1.5 seconds for two rounds to the center of mass at seven yards, beginning with a holstered gun but without cover clothing), while actually clearing cover clothing, drawing from-concealment, and getting off the X.

    I'd only been shooting for 9 months (no, that doesn't mean that I'd been competing for 9 months - that's my actual "time behind the gun") when one of my local pistol instructors - Bill Holcomb, of Three Tango Firearms Academy - pushed me to achieve this standard. It can be done by anyone who puts their willpower to it.
    Sounds like you need to speed thing up Bro....

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Standing yes, sitting not so quick so I'd have to be sneaky ; )
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  6. #35
    Member Array LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    I voted "yes," but I think the question/poll needs to be quantified a bit better - a distance as well as target size along, with method of concealment, should've been specified.

    From personal experience, in still being a relatively new shooter with relatively little training (I know that some would argue this, but in all honesty, this is how I truly feel), I think that anyone - bar either some very specific physical handicaps or the use of "deep concealment" gear - who puts their will to it can quite quickly and easily achieve the benchmark that was the Gunsite "School Drills" standard (1.5 seconds for one round to the head at three yards, and 1.5 seconds for two rounds to the center of mass at seven yards, beginning with a holstered gun but without cover clothing), while actually clearing cover clothing, drawing from-concealment, and getting off the X.

    I'd only been shooting for 9 months (no, that doesn't mean that I'd been competing for 9 months - that's my actual "time behind the gun") when one of my local pistol instructors - Bill Holcomb, of Three Tango Firearms Academy - pushed me to achieve this standard. It can be done by anyone who puts their willpower to it.
    I might agree with your reasoning as I would find it difficult to crouch, drag my pants leg up high enough to get over my riding boots to get at my concealed carry firearm in under 2 seconds. Which is why I voted, I have never tried it.

    When I was working Armed Private Security Officer in South Carolina, it was part of our firearm qualifications to be holding a clip board in one hand, a pen in the other, have a target pop-up (or someone shout Gun!) and we had less then 2 seconds to put a round in a 4 inch circle about 7 to 15 feet from us. We had to do that 4 out of 5 times to qualify for that portion of the firearms certification. Agreed, we were openly carrying a sidearm with a thumb break or thumb strap.. no second shots allowed in any of the tries.. I had no problems with doing it... many did..
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  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    ^ Yep. For those whose lifestyle demands deeper concealment, I think they need another standard to train against and be judged by.

    Look at the F.A.S.T. drill/test from pistol-training.com . Performance is rigorously quantified as to gear, etc.

    I do not think that it is my place to judge how anyone else may choose to carry - it's a compromise we each make, based on many different factors in our own lives. However, I just as strongly believe that to improve, the shooter must quantify their performance, and seek to better it through rigorous practice: and that this self-criteria can apply to any carry method.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Sounds like you need to speed thing up Bro....
    ^ Not to worry, bruddah, that's something that I'm always working on!

    Even without all the other things I learned from Bob Vogel a few weekends ago, the one thing that I realized is how much competition shooting can help me simply "shoot the gun" and "run the gun." This was the main driving impulse behind me having done a 180 in my mind, and now wanting to compete, ASAP.

    Before, I'd been convinced that "gun gaming" could potentially ingrain methodology that would be less-than-optimal when street-survival was the true goal. Therefore, I avoided any thought of competition.

    Today, I still believe that line of thinking does hold certain truths. However, at the same time, I've come to the realization that there's really nothing like competition - short of an actual gun-fight - to require marksmanship and competency in movement (including efficiency in operating gear) while under pressure (i.e. time).

    My aim is thus to use competition as a tool to achieve my goal - to supplement my "tactical/defensive" training so that I can run the gun faster and harder.
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  8. #37
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    ^ Yep. For those whose lifestyle demands deeper concealment, they need another standard to train against and be judged by.

    I do not think that it is my place to judge how anyone else may choose to carry - it's a compromise we each make, based on many different factors in our own lives. However, I just as strongly believe that to improve, the shooter must quantify their performance, and seek to better it through rigorous practice: and that this self-criteria can apply to any carry method.



    ^ Not to worry, bruddah, that's something that I'm always working on!

    Even without all the other things I learned from Bob Vogel a few weekends ago, the one thing that I realized is how much competition shooting can help me simply "shoot the gun" and "run the gun." This was the main driving impulse behind me having done a 180 in my mind, and now wanting to compete, ASAP.

    Before, I'd been convinced that "gun gaming" could potentially ingrain methodology that would be less-than-optimal when street-survival was the true goal. Therefore, I avoided any thought of competition.

    Today, I still believe that line of thinking does hold certain truths. However, at the same time, I've come to the realization that there's really nothing like competition - short of an actual gun-fight - to require marksmanship and competency in movement (including efficiency in operating gear) while under pressure (i.e. time).

    My aim is thus to use competition as a tool to achieve my goal - to supplement my "tactical/defensive" training so that I can run the gun faster and harder.
    Just be careful not to develop any training scars. Otherwise Have at it. Trigger time is always fun.....call me if there is anything I can help with...

  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    for fun i cut up cardboard boxes with a IDPA template.
    last froday at the range i got a couple of other to play with me. people love a timer and doing something other than punching paper.
    also im an IDPA NECPL CRO etc so i did from street dress, the random beep, 7 shots; 3-- dble taps and a head shot to stop the clock. i was shooting a p230 weak hand from jacket pocket draw.
    my average time was 2.45 seconds. the other 2 started slow ( i told them--be deliberate in your movement and go for accuracy; speed will follow when you are smooth) at under 6 seconds and an hour later, out of ammo, they were under 4 seconds.
    and very suprised and pleased with themselves.
    they say that they will try to play our clubs games.
    --of course i cut them slack with no cover garmet and starting with their hand on the gun's butt...
    had to be safe and fast draw is best practiced at home with a mt gun.

    good thread
    Last edited by claude clay; May 7th, 2012 at 08:04 PM.
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  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Just be careful not to develop any training scars.
    ^ Definitely. That was actually the main reason why I didn't want to compete. My outlook has changed on wanting to compete, of-course, but I will remain vigilant to ward-off training scars.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Yes, w/cover garment. Remember, NEVER pass up an opportunity to practice your draw/getting on target (i.e. when you disarm for the evening)...That in itself should give you an extra 365 draws a year...Should be worth something! JMO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  12. #41
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    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
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    Last time out drawing from concealment to Com on a Q target at 7 yards was an average of 1.8 using a 1911.
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  13. #42
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    Fast, not really...last time I tried, the instructor used a calendar to time me.

    Never really been timed!
    Two seconds would be a little tight...but perhaps!
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  14. #43
    Member Array PhoenixTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    This is in response to another thread and also just to satisfy my curiosity.

    There is no right or wrong answer just give an honest response.

    This would be from a conventional CC holster IWB, OWB, AIWB and so on. This would not be from a deep cover type holster but if you can do it from that type holster let us know.
    Let's have some parameters for those who want to video the attempt. Do you want the hands in an interview position, by the sides or up in front of the shooter?

  15. #44
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    The distance will be 7 yards, standard IDPA or similar type target.

    You can start from whatever your normal ready position is interview or hands in a normal at your side position.

    As I stated earlier this would be performed with a conventional holster OWB, IWB, AIWB with whatever cover garment you would normally wear. If you can do it from an unconventional draw, holster shirt, belly band or so on great but not expected.

    One round from the holster, at 7 yards in 2 seconds striking the target in a manner that would be effective. Some instuctors use the same basic format except two rounds are fired or the distance is 5 yards, time is 1.5 seconds and so on it is all the same basic drill.

    Videos would be great and I want to thank everyone who answered and commented keep it coming.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  16. #45
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    I voted no because, while I can do it at the range during practice, I'm quite sure in real life I'll be around 3.5 to 4 seconds.

    It's easy to be fast when you're ready to draw. It won't be so easy when you are eating a burger or pumping gas.



    ETA: I didn't see at first that this was about a drill. Yes, I can do it.
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