How many members here can accomplish this drill? - Page 6

How many members here can accomplish this drill?

This is a discussion on How many members here can accomplish this drill? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My thoughts on the moving off the X to the 6. You are on the same line as if you did not move at all ...

View Poll Results: From CC can you draw, fire and effectiely hit the target in 2 seconds?

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  • Yes

    166 64.84%
  • No

    18 7.03%
  • Never tried before

    67 26.17%
  • Don't need to

    5 1.95%
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Thread: How many members here can accomplish this drill?

  1. #76
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    My thoughts on the moving off the X to the 6. You are on the same line as if you did not move at all when you are facing a gun. From my FOF if you do not move off line and just stand still you get shot either a fraction before you pull the trigger or fraction of second after you pull it. No matter how fast you are you can't out run that bullet. I see that as you both die. So movement off the X needs to make the BG change his aim point, the more you do that the better.

    As to someone closing the distance on you such as a knife attack most people will move back to the 6 walking backwards I say you can't move backwards faster than someone running forwards without falling on your Bu**. My thoughts are that all movement needs to be with the feet pointed towards the way of movement. Hard to do and move straight back to your 6, can be done but harder than if you move at a angle. Specially for us older guys.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes


  2. #77
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
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    I voted "yes" There is a caveat to it though. If I don't practice at it on a regular basis my time goes up. I have a shot timer app on my iPhone that I use for dry fire practice. I set the timer for a random start buzzer.
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

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  3. #78
    Member Array John123's Avatar
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    When practicing getting off the x/ shooting while moving, 22lr is your friend. If not possible at your range then try air soft at home. Since I'm on an online forum and none of you know me personally I can admit that I actually love practicing with airsoft and I'm convinced it's saved me some serious money in the long run.

  4. #79
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    My thoughts on the moving off the X to the 6. You are on the same line as if you did not move at all when you are facing a gun. From my FOF if you do not move off line and just stand still you get shot either a fraction before you pull the trigger or fraction of second after you pull it. No matter how fast you are you can't out run that bullet. I see that as you both die. So movement off the X needs to make the BG change his aim point, the more you do that the better.

    As to someone closing the distance on you such as a knife attack most people will move back to the 6 walking backwards I say you can't move backwards faster than someone running forwards without falling on your Bu**. My thoughts are that all movement needs to be with the feet pointed towards the way of movement. Hard to do and move straight back to your 6, can be done but harder than if you move at a angle. Specially for us older guys.
    You almost have the 6, you are correct, you are in the same line of fire. However, you can always drop to your knees or one knee...Sometimes the only way to move is toward your 6. Hallways and narrow corridors are good examples of when this would be your option...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  5. #80
    RKM
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    I can draw from concealment, Galco King Tuk, IWB at 4:00 with a Glock handgun and be on target in JUST under 1.5 seconds. I've never timed myself live fire but I'm guessing if I can do what I just stated in the time mentioned, 2 seconds shouldn't be an issue. Add stress, fear, particular clothing among other things... that may change.

  6. #81
    sgb
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    Last year shooting informally with some friends. 15 yards on 6" steel.

    http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u...t=VID00045.mp4
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  7. #82
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Harry, One thing I can say about most anything in life is there is few time one can say always or never. But how many of those here on this site have a default move of moving straight back to the 6 while stepping backwards to make more distance? My thinking is trying to walk backwards is wrong. Just me!

    As to hallways and narrow corridors and the dropping to your knee or knees, I can do that a not move a foot back or forward.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  8. #83
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    Bill to each his own but simply standing there is not getting off the X.

    Any movement at that point is good movement.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  9. #84
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Bill to each his own but simply standing there is not getting off the X.

    Any movement at that point is good movement.
    But moving straight back IS getting off the X of a bullets path? If you are on the bullets path where you are moving straight in line of its path is not moving off the X. I don't care how fast you are you can't out run a bullet.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  10. #85
    Member Array All_Business's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    My thoughts on the moving off the X to the 6. You are on the same line as if you did not move at all when you are facing a gun. From my FOF if you do not move off line and just stand still you get shot either a fraction before you pull the trigger or fraction of second after you pull it. No matter how fast you are you can't out run that bullet. I see that as you both die. So movement off the X needs to make the BG change his aim point, the more you do that the better.

    As to someone closing the distance on you such as a knife attack most people will move back to the 6 walking backwards I say you can't move backwards faster than someone running forwards without falling on your Bu**. My thoughts are that all movement needs to be with the feet pointed towards the way of movement. Hard to do and move straight back to your 6, can be done but harder than if you move at a angle. Specially for us older guys.
    You are on the same line of fire but you become smaller. The shot that was aimed at your chest but hit your arm could have possibly missed completely if one stepped back 5 or 6 feet. I wish i could train for it but at my range they dont let you lean against the back wall and shoot down range.
    "When that gun comes out of that holster; it's business time." -Chris Costa

  11. #86
    VIP Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    What target, distance, and how many times do I have to hit it?
    Not my circus, not my monkeys.

  12. #87
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    This is the response I gave to Mike when he brought up the same point. I have changed the name to protect the innocent.

    LOL well Bill you are absolutely correct you are still on the X and you will probably get shot, stabbed or hit, such is life brother.

    Up, down, left, right, back or forward getting off the "X" is not some magical, click your heels three times and all is better, it simply makes you a harder target for a very, very short time frame BUT you do not choose your surroundings or dictate the event you are reactionary so you cannot stop and get a do over you better damn well know how to react and shoot in different enviroments, positions, distances and from every place on the X, which if you haven't noticed has four points so at least four directions and is simply easier to use get off the X instead of get off the asterick "*".


    You are correct in your thought process that the two least desirable directions are forward and back, but as stated above you may not have a choice.

    Your vehicle is the second one in. As you are unlocking the door your are surprised by a BG where you gonna go? Backwards or forwards are the only choice.


    You are walking from where you parked to an out of the way restaurant. Where you gonna go?


    You are in your hotel coming back from dinner headed to your room. Where you gonna go?


    Here is the other post in reference to this.

    There have been similar discussions about this before. Yes in a perfect world getting off the X would take you laterally out of the line of fire or at least make the other guy have to stop and reacquire you but the world is not perfect so you have to adapt.

    Zero to six feet is what is known as the hole. It is someplace you do not want to be. Your opponent does not have to be certified with anything, an expert shooter, in good physical shape he just has to reach you or hit you with whatever weapon he happens to be using. In virtually all self defense type situations distance is your friend. Creating distance simply puts you out of reach of bladed or impact weapons, makes you a harder target in the event you are facing a firearm and gives you more space/time to react.

    Now keep in mind this is when the assailant is not advancing, obviously if you are moving back and he is moving forward the distance will pretty much remain equal but you still have to be able to shoot while moving. Upon contact you engage in a method suited for close quarters and continually create distance, keep firing all the while doing what I call fighting your way to the sights. Just like this......

    Phoenix Tactical Solutions: Close Contact Handgun Drill - 2 Plus 8 - YouTube


    There could/would also be enviromental or physical limitations to lateral movement. If the situation occured between two parked cars, a narrow alley or hallway you have nowhere to go but back, you will not be the one dictating the situation the BG will you will simply be reacting to whatever he does.

    There is one other option in some cases aggressive movement forward while firing which could/would either eliminate the opponent or make him not want to play anymore and retreat, but this is one of those situations all or nothing you cannot hesitate once you have started your movement. Again this is when there is simply nowhere else to go.

    The "X" is not just side to side it encompasses all directions simply because the world encompasses all directions.

    This is a figure eight drill to teach you to shoot in a 360 degree enviroment.

    Figure-8 Drill - YouTube If you want the actual youtube links it is post #68.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  13. #88
    VIP Member
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    IDPA standard target or similar, 7 yards, 2 seconds from concealment with a conventional holster.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  14. #89
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    Harry, One thing I can say about most anything in life is there is few time one can say always or never. But how many of those here on this site have a default move of moving straight back to the 6 while stepping backwards to make more distance? My thinking is trying to walk backwards is wrong. Just me!

    As to hallways and narrow corridors and the dropping to your knee or knees, I can do that a not move a foot back or forward.
    Bill, I have made no absolutes. Getting off the X is 360 degree training for me. I will not limit myself to anything and continue to get out of my comfort zone. If you do not practice moving back, than Im afraid you have said always and never. I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  15. #90
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    Harry, One thing I can say about most anything in life is there is few time one can say always or never. But how many of those here on this site have a default move of moving straight back to the 6 while stepping backwards to make more distance? My thinking is trying to walk backwards is wrong. Just me!

    As to hallways and narrow corridors and the dropping to your knee or knees, I can do that a not move a foot back or forward.
    Take a look at this Bill. Might help....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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