Defensive Carry - Internet vs Reality? Trusting Your Carry Gun
This is a discussion on Defensive Carry - Internet vs Reality? Trusting Your Carry Gun within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Just throwing this out there as it's been on my mind for a while now and I want to see how well it goes over ...
June 18th, 2012 01:45 PM
Defensive Carry - Internet vs Reality? Trusting Your Carry Gun
Just throwing this out there as it's been on my mind for a while now and I want to see how well it goes over 'in the wild' so to speak.
Discussion Point: Trusting Your Carry Gun
I'll just come out and say it... I don't need a gun to go bang 1000 times in a row before it can be trusted for carry, I don't even need one to go bang 100 times in a row to be trusted for carry, yet that's what seems to be programmed into the minds of people on gun forums. If you have one failure of any kind in 500 rounds OR AT ALL, then you cannot trust your gun and you must keep it in the safe or sell it immediately and get one that is trustworthy. If you feel you need to fire your gun 200, 400, 1000 times without failure before it can be trusted I encourage you to rethink your ways because there's no telling if round 201, 401 or 1001 will be the failure.
Instead, I believe a carry gun needs only to reliably shoot 1-2 magazines worth of ammo reliably, every time. If you're at the range and get through 89/100 rounds of Winchester white box before your gun fails to feed that does not mean it's not fit for carry. Most range ammo is dirty and quite different than the ammo you probably use for carry, probably a different weight too, and is most likely a full metal jacket and not a jacketed hollow point, you get the picture. I'd much rather know my gun can always get through 1-2 magazines of carry ammo reliably than 1000 rounds of range ammo anyway.
I shoot range ammo for practice, not validation.
I'm sure there are a fair amount of people who got rid of a gun they really enjoyed carrying because they had a failure 200 rounds in on an extended range day... that's unfortunate.
I'll take a new carry gun to the range and fire a box of 100 through it, along with at least 2 magazines of carry ammo. If there are no failures, I carry it at that point. If there's an early failure I do have my concerns - however if the failure happens late in the session as mentioned above I don't stress about it, I go home and clean it and try it again. If I continue to have problems it goes in for warranty work (if new) and the process starts over.
June 18th, 2012 02:02 PM
I carry a Glock 26. I have every confidence that if I pull the switch, it'll go BANG! It has never failed to fire or feed on me. My wife has a 26 and it has a tendency to double feed on the 2nd to last round (always this feed, 4 out of 4 magazines). It is going back to Glock soon. I still believe that if she pulls the trigger it will go bang, at least 9 times, which will hopefully be enough to get the job done.
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June 18th, 2012 02:13 PM
I agree completely.
Originally Posted by Thunder71
That said, I do like to know that my chosen SD/HD guns will run - and run in a religiously reliable and dependable manner. I do favor a higher round-count, using my chosen SD/HD ammo, in my chosen and segregated SD/HD magazines, before I feel comfortable "trusting" said firearm in such a life-critical role.
Nevertheless, just like you said, there's no guarantees, and I specifically practice to deal with possible failures, no matter how unlikely.
June 18th, 2012 02:15 PM
My EDC is SA Micro-Compact 45, at the range after 100 rounds it does have a tendency to malfunction but a few drops of oil clears it right up. Do I trust it as an EDC, of course, if I were to be somewhere that required carrying and using 100 rounds then I am in the wrong place to begin with.
When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
"Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."
June 18th, 2012 03:06 PM
Got to agree. If a gun gets thru a few mags reliably, it's good to ride the river with. The reality is a few shots are goin to settle the deal, and the citizen is under no commitment to engage in an extended gun fight.
The inet will have you living in a bunker and packing a crew served weapon if you feed into all the hoopla.
" Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight"
June 18th, 2012 03:15 PM
i mentioned elsewhere on my new Shied that i knew after 3 mag's that it was trustworthy. i've been carrying and shooting it up around 700 rounds now.
it operates properly with all but lead round nose loaded lighter than factory ( which you can't buy anyways).
if a revolver will do 3 cylenders and still spin freely, its good to carry.
some feel that 400 is the magic number. more money to them.
or reather, from them to their gun shop for ammo.
on the otherhand, 400 or so calling it a breakin period ovelaps you getting use to and
good with a new gun. not such a bad thing, is it?
necessary? perhaps not.
You plug 'em, I plant 'em
...kid can't read at 17 (Garcia/Hunter 1985)
Lack of preparation on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on mine
June 18th, 2012 03:16 PM
We all have differing standards, what's acceptable to one is not acceptable to another.
"There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition
June 18th, 2012 03:17 PM
The internet didn't convince me that I needed to fire 1000+ rounds through my EDC to trust it on my hip. It took me that many rounds to feel comfortable carrying it on my hip. There's no magic number. If one is content with 100 rounds, fine. Personally, I need more.
There's nothing like a funeral to make you feel alive
June 18th, 2012 04:02 PM
Im glad you are happy with what you do. For me, my main concern with a new weapon is to run it thru the paces. Not so much ammo count, but training with a new weapon. That might mean putting 500-1000 rounds down range. If it makes it thru a day of training its good in my book....
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......
June 18th, 2012 04:24 PM
If you're training regularly, cleaning frequently, and can get it to eat 50 rounds consistently then fine. What most are saying is not that a gun needs to fire 200 or 400 rounds in a single extended range session to be good to go, but that any gun needs to demonstrate reliability. I want to know that THIS gun works. I bought a G19 and fired 50 through it on day 1. 50 more a couple of days later. Ran 100 through it in a training session in a class. Cleaned it, ran 2 mags of carry ammo through it, and now use it as my EDC. (about 500 rounds later at this point) But it's a Glock, which means the brand has demonstrated reliability. When I bought a Kimber, I was much more careful because they have known issues. I want to know that a gun is going to go bang when it's got lead build up and lint in it from carry. YMMV.
June 18th, 2012 04:34 PM
Trusting my carry guns came long before most of the internet forums available today. Back in those days, the quality of ammo and firearms available was also better IMO. You also didn't have automobile and clock manufacturers manufacturing knock-off magazines. Plain and simple....there are very few things I really trust in this world. I trust my Glocks. Thing is....can your carry pistol trust you? That may sound silly in a way, but carrying is sort of a package deal. You, your equipment, and the ammo. With more choices available these days than ever before, the decisions seem to have become more difficult. Many folks who abandon their once trusty sidearm for the going rage are often victims of their own mind. Society as a whole has also changed plenty since the turn of the century. Now when something doesn't work well (without maintaining or care), or something gets to the ripe old age of one year, it frequently gets tossed for the current or brand new model. Kind of like our nation as a whole these days...........the structure has become too large to rely on it's current foundation and the termite contract has expired.
June 18th, 2012 04:42 PM
Interesting POV all. As I have only experience with 2 carry pistols I go with the innocent until prove theory, somewhat. If the gun functions as it should going through regular and situational shooting rigors I see no reason not to trust it. Now if something comes up in my regular shooting regiment then I look into it.
"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain
June 18th, 2012 04:48 PM
Good to see the different points of view... My take on it is that if I am shooting a box of ammo through paper and get to 250 rounds and my gun jams, I don't discount my firearm as a carry weapon, some here do and have.
That to me, could easily be caused by a dirty feed ramp alone... something that should never be an issue when carrying.
June 18th, 2012 05:12 PM
I'm not so sure you can assume that if a gun goes through 100 and a couple of mags you can count on it.
Case in point, I've got one that will reliably throw about 75 downrange. Then, powder starts to
accumulate in the receiver and on the extractor, and by about 100 rounds the thing is pretty useless.
It doesn't seem to be an ammo thing, though brand probably does count.
It is just fine if I keep it meticulously clean.
Now, it took me several trips to the range to catch on to the quirky stuff.
There is no answer. Put too many through and next time a spring will sproing. Don't put enough through
and you really don't have a good sense of the gun's longer term behavior and quirks.
Best bet, stick with popular brands that most folks have good luck with; but even that guarantees nothing.
Reliable comes with a rattan cane or a good knife.
Last edited by Hopyard; June 18th, 2012 at 08:03 PM.
Reason: spell fix through to throw, ejector to extractor
If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
June 18th, 2012 05:23 PM
Both my edcs have eaten thousands of rounds of all types flawlessly, so for me it is a non-issue.
"Preparation and mindset are everything. Allowing one's mouth to write checks that one's butt is unable or unwilling to cash is foolish."
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