Two Hand Grip

This is a discussion on Two Hand Grip within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Although I've been a shooter since the age of 10, I'm only recently a handgun shooter [last 2 years] for purposes of concealed carry and ...

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Thread: Two Hand Grip

  1. #1
    Member Array oboe's Avatar
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    Two Hand Grip

    Although I've been a shooter since the age of 10, I'm only recently a handgun shooter [last 2 years] for purposes of concealed carry and personal defense. I have two pistols - the M&P full size in 9mm and just recently the M&P Shield [also 9mm]. At an informal shoot, one of the instructors who also was a part of the meet up group watched me shoot and said I'd shoot better using the "thumbs forward" two-handed grip rather than the "thumb-on-thumb" grip that I've been using [she called it the "revolver grip"]. That's the second time a professional has volunteered that info.

    I'm not comfortable with thumbs forward and I can't achieve it out of the holster as fast as the thumb-over-thumb. Is the thumbs forward all that much better?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    Yes it has much better recoil control when used properly lookup some gun handling videos on YouTube like Todd Jarrett

    Todd Jarrett IPSC Pistol Grip Lesson.flv - YouTube

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    Ex Member Array oldrwizr's Avatar
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    If your left thumb is behind the rear-end of the slide you risk getting clobbered by it on the recoil. Not a problem with a revolver, but you'll quit doing it the first time you get smacked by the slide of a semi-auto.

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    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    Here's a video from Paul Gomez that I thought was good, no surprise there.

    Tweaking the Grip by Gomez-Training.com - YouTube
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    How many rounds have you put down range with your semi auto pistols? Are you hitting the targets to point of aim always, or are you sometimes inconsistent? Shooting a rapid string of fire say 10 rounds or more, do you find yourself adjusting your grip during that string of fire? Have you regularly hit targets low or left or both low and left (considering you're right handed and your left hand is the support hand)? Ever bump the slide lock or rub the slide with your off hand thumb?
    Professionals only got to be professionals from going to school and learning how to be professionals....studying specifically for what they teach as a professional. Most professionals also have plenty of hands on experience within their chosen field of study and practice. There are basically two times a professional will give you advice as a novice....A) when they are getting paid to do so, and B) when they feel it's in your best interest to do as they do because they know how it's done.
    Flashback..........(way back)............ever remember your dad teaching you how to use a hand saw on a 2x4? Did he teach you to wrap all of your fingers through the handle, or did he tell you to keep your pointer finger over the top and pointing in the direction of the cut? Hacksaw and metal? Same deal........pointer finger on the frame and not through the grip. Makes a difference in a straight cut and a jagged or angled cut. So.....we have power tools these days and don't have to worry about any of that any more. Batteries instead of cords too!
    Okay.......I'm finishing up here. I'm still a fan of what works best for you and has done so for a long time is plenty good enough. On the other hand, it's quite possible that if you get seemingly good advice on a subject twice, you'll likely get it again under similar conditions from similar folks. Change is a lot easier before habits are formed. How many times have you shot your pistols weak hand only? What is "better"? Something between good and best? My advice? Try the advice given. Good advice is generally hard to come by. What have you got to loose and what might you gain for trying? Just think about how many years those professionals have behind them and how much it must have cost for their professional training and education. As always.....you have my best wishes.

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    A good friend and great instructor(whom we will all miss dearly) has some vid's on youtube on the thumbs forward method Paul Gomez,I too use to shoot thumbs rapped,learned thumbs forward,and now am more accurate and it works with my carbine work to,or the "Magpul"stance as some instructors call it.

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    Thumbs forward. Try experimenting with curling your thumbs down slightly, and you may find that it provides better leverage for a more secure grip.

    You'll eventually get slide-bit shooting autos with a revolver grip.

    Your thumb-over-thumb feels more natural because you've developed muscle memory for it. That doesn't mean it's the right grip for you, though. You'll be better off re-training.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockrocker View Post
    A good friend and great instructor(whom we will all miss dearly) has some vid's on youtube on the thumbs forward method Paul Gomez,I too use to shoot thumbs rapped,learned thumbs forward,and now am more accurate and it works with my carbine work to,or the "Magpul"stance as some instructors call it.
    I cant tell you how many times I have used one of pauls videos to show one of my own students how to do it right.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    I know the OP has seen his responses on the M4Carbine.net Forums, but I just wanted to cross-link it here, so that there's a "complete picture."

    Two hand grip - M4Carbine.net Forums

    In addition to the late Paul Gomez's excellent video, I'd also like to add that of DRM's -

    Pistol Shooting: The Ultimate Grip, Stance & Presentation. - YouTube

    ^ Which demonstrates the specifics of his "Fist/Fire 'Roll Over Wrist Lock'" technique, and

    Evolution of Combat Pistol Technique by D.R. Middlebrooks - YouTube

    ^ Which shows the "evolution" of core pistol technique as it relates to stance/grip.

    Other good references?

    Travis Haley on Handgun Grip (napisy PL) - YouTube

    ^ Travis Haley's demo on the Magpul The Art of the Dynamic Handgun DVD series.

    And I don't think that this discussion can be complete without linking to one of the most often cited articles, when it comes to the modern grip:

    The Combat Grip

    ^ There's some great details in that article.

    Finally, for some great discussion:

    Proper Grip & Recoil Managment

    You can see from all of these different sources, oboe, that there's a bit of variation in each of the grips of the highly acclaimed shooters cited. If there's a "by Hoyle" way of doing it, wouldn't you expect that particular shooter would just absolutely dominate, year after year after year? You really need to spend some time working with these different grip variations, to get at what's ideal for you, because every one of us is built a little differently, and we thus also shoot a little differently. Case-in-point, as I cited in that DC discussion thread I linked, my buddy really liked the way Bob Vogel used his upper body - specifically, the inboard pressure of both arms, using everything from the pecs distal - to mitigate recoil, so he tried to adopt that method during class. It literally took him the better part of the day of intensive shooting before he finally started to get that technique to work...and in the hours prior, he literally struggled to put his shot on-target.

    For me, personally, things didn't really come together until I happened on to DRM's methodology. For me, dropping my support-hand pinky down below my weapon/dominant hand's grip works wonders for recoil control, particularly on fast, long, strings. Even at my currently novice skill-level, I can easily "mag-dump" an entire load of 20 rounds into a 3-inch circle, from 3 yards, from a Compact sized pistol. Yes, I touch the frame with the tip of my support hand's thumb, but in reality, that's just a tactile reference point so that I know I've driven that wrist as far out as I can get it to go.

    Even the "thumbs straight" has a lot of subtle variations, even among true top-tier shooters.
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  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    If you are able to put shoots on center of mass quickly, consistantly,and safely at 10-15 yards or closer I don't care how you hold your handgun. But then again I'm also not that concerned about your stance either. If it works it works.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array JDE101's Avatar
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    The latest edition of Gun Digests book on concealed carry, edited by Massad Ayoob (sorry, I lent it to one of my daughters, so I don't have it here to give you the exact title, etc.) has a good section, including pictures, about various grips and their pros and cons. There is no one "best", just as there is no one "best" stance for everybody. People are different--body size, shape, hand size, etc., etc. It is worth checking out a couple different ones, then settle on what works best for you. I personally like what Massad call a "crush" grip, with thumb over thumb. Works for me with my Kimber 1911 and my S&W 642. Ya gotta find what works best for you. Just my .02.
    21bubba and Eichorn like this.
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