Some thoughts from Col Grossman - Page 3

Some thoughts from Col Grossman

This is a discussion on Some thoughts from Col Grossman within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; these thread is basically on getting your mindset right for when you are in a fight. Here is a video that I think covers that ...

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Thread: Some thoughts from Col Grossman

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    these thread is basically on getting your mindset right for when you are in a fight. Here is a video that I think covers that scope quite well.

    Navy SEALs CQB Training Part 8 - YouTube
    Last edited by Bill MO; July 1st, 2012 at 01:15 PM.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95 View Post
    I seems to me the worrier mindset is a dangerous one.....indeed.
    Im sure you have heard the saying "lead, follow, or get out of the way" It would appear to me, that you are in the way, and need to move.....
    First Sgt likes this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  3. #33
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    HB you read my mind.

    P95 if you feel the warrior mindset itself is dangerous I truly hope that you never meet someone who uses the warrior mindset for the wrong reasons you will not survive the encounter I assure you. If this is the way you truly feel I would truly request that you do not follow me just get out of the way and then go home and we will let you know when it is over.

    There is so much to be said about this video....location.....nationality....drug thugs.....America needs to strengthen it's borders so people like this can stay where they are at and simply kill each other off to extinction hopefully.

    If the borders were sealed today it would take decades for the "people like this" that are already here to exterminate themselves. The problem with that is they would take a hell of a lot of LE and innocent folks with them before it was over with. Make no mistake just because they don't find 25 headless bodies along side the highway does not mean the same cartels are not already here and going strong. It simply means they have a lower profile. In there own countries it would be centuries because there would always be someone to take there place.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array dV8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Bill I am coming to the conclusion you may be right. It seems that common sense is slowly fading.P95 I do pray that you and others never have to use their firearm in self defense but if you do...
    And I am coming to the conclusion that the closer we come to "in Gov we Trust" instead of "In God we Trust" the more likely we will be appreciative of the training and these discussions. I too pray that I never need use any of it though, as I encourage my children and grand children to be prepared.
    LEARN something today so you can TEACH something tomorrow.
    Dominus Vobiscum <))>(
    Where is the wisdom that we have lost in knowledge?" T.S. Elliot

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95 View Post
    That same "i'm invincible mindset" just because you are packing will get you killed also. I pray I never think I am "Rambo"
    Quote Originally Posted by P95 View Post
    I seems to me the worrier mindset is a dangerous one.....indeed.
    I think to better understand Grossman's point you need to understand how he has come to draw his conclusions. His first book, On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society (Pulitzer nominated) describes how he essentially invented an entire field in the study of psychology. Killology teaches us that humans do not naturally want to kill other humans (see quote below from review). His research continued to evolve and he has published many more books documenting his research.

    If you are carrying a gun for self defense then I recommend that you read On Killing and understand what the psychological battle is going to be like at the time you have to pull the trigger. Nature vs Nurture?

    On Killing Review

    Out of his intensive studies, observations and interviews Grossman formulated a science he calls “Killology.” It’s a disturbing term but it pins us to his topic like a bayonet and forces us to gaze, eyes wide open, at an act that is both obscene and profane. Yet at the heart of his thesis is the contention that humans have an innate aversion to taking life. Given the sad history of our race that’s a large pill to swallow, but if you suspend skepticism and grant him this assumption your journey into the heart of darkness will be rewarded with a note of hope.
    Harryball and Chaplain Scott like this.
    rolyat63
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    G'afternoon my friends. Unfortunately they have already crossed the border and linked up with Los 13 who are our homegrown variety. Since the LEO and their families are targeted, tortured and killed if they investigate crimes, they are afraid to do so.

    The kook fringe are using these murders as a cover up to snatch women, to rape, then torture and kill to get their jollies.

    So yes, the need grows weekly that self defense training may become a more serious necessity. We are not immune.

    With these types, you needn't be soo squeemish for defending yourself 'legally'. Your life, and those of your family, means nothing to them.

    I believe that the last approx count is 84,000 victims.

    Don Jose de La Mancha

  7. #37
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    For anyone looking for a copy of the Bulletproof Mind the link below is from Grossman's website and has the DVD for 105.00 and the MP3 download for 25.00. Few more choices in between.

    https://www.gavindebecker.com/online...roof-mind.html
    rolyat63
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    A gun in the hand is a million times more valuable than a cop on the phone!

    FL Concealed Weapon or Firearm Program

  8. #38
    P95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Im sure you have heard the saying "lead, follow, or get out of the way" It would appear to me, that you are in the way, and need to move.....
    This "I am a Ninja" is out of control.

  9. #39
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    I don't understand some of the comments in this thread. Are there people who believe that training is not necessary to survive a deadly force attack and that somehow luck would be the deciding factor?
    For those with the above belief, I can only say Good Luck!
    Without training to avoid dangerous places and situations your chances of being involved in a deadly encounter increases.
    People who don't train their bodies and minds will find that both will diminish substantially , especially with age.
    Utah Concealed Firearms Certified Instructor

  10. #40
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    Evening Tac guy: Despite what the gov't says, they are pouring over the Border. 90% are just peaceful people, but the othe 10% are very mean. Kill , rape, etc and run back to Mexico with a "get out of Jail free card".

    Try --> http://www.secureborderintel.org/Bor...tter061712.pdf

    Read the no. of illegals in some of those groups, 40 - 70 + and most required to cary packs of drugs as a life or death condition by the Cartels..

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billspider View Post
    I don't understand some of the comments in this thread. Are there people who believe that training is not necessary to survive a deadly force attack and that somehow luck would be the deciding factor?
    For those with the above belief, I can only say Good Luck!
    Without training to avoid dangerous places and situations your chances of being involved in a deadly encounter increases.
    People who don't train their bodies and minds will find that both will diminish substantially , especially with age.
    In answer to your question, my understanding is there are those who believe they are fast on the draw so they can get into the situation fast if need and most time just the showing of the gun will make the BG run away. Statistics show that is a high % of the case of engaging BGs. Also they can shoot small groupings at the range while standing on the firing line shooting paper bulleye targets. So if they need to shoot they can and will do the same thing to and on the BG. Statistics also show that most CCers will never be in a situation where they need to do anything so they therefore have little need for a gun in the first place. Meaning they will most likely never have to draw or fire in a real life threatening situation and they have more important things to do than train to win gunfights then practice what the learned so they can do it efficiently.

    Or that is what I believe to be their thoughts in most of their posts. They will most likely say other wise. They will say I am good enough to take care of any situation I should encounter. Since we all must take care of ourselves, we will all live or die by our own choices in life in a life threatening situation as in all life.
    tacman605 and First Sgt like this.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95 View Post
    This "I am a Ninja" is out of control.
    Ignorance is bliss...
    TSiWRX and First Sgt like this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  13. #43
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    ^ It's not "I am Ninja," P95.

    It's knowing that you possess the skills necessary to - *hopefully* - triumph in the fight of your life, rather than to not properly train yourself to be able to win, or even just survive, that fight.

    Awareness, avoidance, deterrence - the latter two to both include deescalation as well as escape - will always be the right thing to do, for us average citizens who are faced with a potential defensive encounter to violent crime.

    But when you cannot escape, you'd better be able to get the job done.

    Having a gun or knife doesn't mean that you'll know how to use it.

    Having fists doesn't guaranty that you'll win a bare-knuckle fight.

    Having a fire-extinguisher doesn't insure that you'll be able to snuff out a fire.

    Owning a scalpel doesn't make you a surgeon.

    Using a pen doesn't make you a poet.

    It is how we as individuals approach and treat these endeavors that makes us proficient in them. The late Paul Gomez once said that living in the continental US, it's very, very unlikely that you'll ever need to resort to your weapon - but in that awful instance when you find that you need it, you will need it in a definitive and absolute sense. That time is not the time to find out you do not possess the skills (and mindset) necessary to come out on top.

    The fact is:

    If I were "Ninja," I'd not need any training of mind or body - I'd just carry a gun, or any other weapon, for that matter, and magically know how to use it.
    rolyat63, tacman605 and First Sgt like this.

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    ^ It's not "I am Ninja," P95.

    It's knowing that you possess the skills necessary to - *hopefully* - triumph in the fight of your life, rather than to not properly train yourself to be able to win, or even just survive, that fight.

    Awareness, avoidance, deterrence - the latter two to both include deescalation as well as escape - will always be the right thing to do, for us average citizens who are faced with a potential defensive encounter to violent crime.

    But when you cannot escape, you'd better be able to get the job done.

    Having a gun or knife doesn't mean that you'll know how to use it.

    Having fists doesn't guaranty that you'll win a bare-knuckle fight.

    Having a fire-extinguisher doesn't insure that you'll be able to snuff out a fire.

    Owning a scalpel doesn't make you a surgeon.

    Using a pen doesn't make you a poet.

    It is how we as individuals approach and treat these endeavors that makes us proficient in them. The late Paul Gomez once said that living in the continental US, it's very, very unlikely that you'll ever need to resort to your weapon - but in that awful instance when you find that you need it, you will need it in a definitive and absolute sense. That time is not the time to find out you do not possess the skills (and mindset) necessary to come out on top.

    The fact is:

    If I were "Ninja," I'd not need any training of mind or body - I'd just carry a gun, or any other weapon, for that matter, and magically know how to use it.
    Very well put....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  15. #45
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    This "I am a Ninja" is out of control.

    So far you are the only one who has mentioned Ninja or Rambo.

    First you brain is your ultimate weapon. Whether you choose to engage or leave you better have the knowledge and common sense when to do which at a moments notice.
    Second there is a quote from the biker community which basically states "I you have to ask and I have to explain, you would not understand".

    Read his material or don't up to you does not affect me in the least. On another thread you listed links to situations that occured where folks fought and did not give up or in other words displayed a "Warrior Mindset" so which is it?
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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