An epiphany...maybe

An epiphany...maybe

This is a discussion on An epiphany...maybe within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I had an epiphany of sorts on the way home the other night, it’s an hour drive to work and I was thinking. Keep in ...

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Thread: An epiphany...maybe

  1. #1
    Member Array kikr's Avatar
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    Jun 2006
    Jacksonville, Fl

    An epiphany...maybe

    I had an epiphany of sorts on the way home the other night, it’s an hour drive to work and I was thinking. Keep in mind it’s not a complete thought, but you guys can help fill in the holes.

    I was thinking about the OODA loop, I think I’ve got a better than average grasp on the coneept which means I’m giving myself too much credit. Anyways I was thinking about how it’s always been applied to actions of combat, and then got to thinking about how it also applies to avoidance and prevention. Observation, Orientation, Decision, Action. We all know that the eye sees (in general order) movement/light, shape, color, and detail. (Which also why you get the “a (chose your race/color) male” descriptions, it’s the highest level of observation that can be easily articulated). So in order to avoid a conflict we can’t let our opponent see us. That’s figurative, meaning he doesn’t notice details. Either he doesn’t “orientate” on us because we don’t appear to be a worth while target, or because we appear to be a target that’s too much trouble. Or we simply don’t attract his attention in the first place. Orientation, OK so we screwed up and got noticed, now we have to practice a little E&E and find an exit, or a crowd, or some way to limit his access to us so that he can’t get the “sticky eyes” on us and ours. Applying the 11 and 1 o’clock from the attack/defend mode I’m thinking 5 and 7 o’clock. Anyways, we’ve messed that up and now we have to keep him from making the “Decision” to attack us. Maybe we employ our command voice (since presence was ineffective) or maybe or a cell phone call for help, or maybe it’s time to unsnap that thumbsnap. Because if he does decide, it’s down to act and at that point it’s gets back to the basics of 100 yard dashes, or stance, grip, breath control, and trigger squeeze. Not really, but anyways. After typing and reading this maybe it wasn’t as insightfull as I thought. What do you folks think?
    We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
    George Orwell

  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Apr 2006
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    Well, I've always agreed with trying to look like a target that's not worth trying. With some predators that may not work but then with them, nothing may work. I always like to stay "under the radar". Don't wear expensive items, flash cash, talk loud or draw attention. When talking with people who are going to vacation in the third world I've tried so many times to explain how important it is to function this way to avoid trouble. Some get it, many don't. Many times overseas locals are shocked to learn I'm not a local or local permanent expat. They tell me that's a good thing and probably keeps some of the local vermin away. They're looking for rich tourists to rob. It may sound wierd but I've even been known to use crowds of people that don't get it as a sort of cover. I stay just a short distance away from them knowing they will draw any unwanted attention from me. Might sound a little "off" but it even works in the states.....

    Maybe I'm just a little "off" but I'll take any advantage I can get!
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  3. #3
    VIP Member (Retired Staff) Array P95Carry's Avatar
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    I think you have the essence pretty well - and it is not that easy to get down in text as we are trying to describe a generalization.

    Along with the OODA is also an almost concurrent 'color'' shift - thru from what we hope is initial yellow - all way to perhaps full red. I am almost 100% dressed casual - and so probably do not show up too much - other than appearing ''old fart'' category - that said tho I think the first thing a BG might notice about me is alertness - and according to my wife and others, appear intimidating - well, I am 6.00 and 205 so - not a shrimp!

    Not necessarily obvious regarding my looking at him - because we have to practice almost subversive scanning, for example reflection analysis per store windows etc. However, it should be pretty obvious that we are not in our own lil world like so many folks - enough to perhaps let him look further for someone in a dream!

    Melting into a crowd is useful when possible - blending in - but within that too still making good use of peripheral vision, remembering that not all BG's operate as singularities.

    Bottom line anyways - con yellow is always way to go, and it can be very subtle.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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  5. #4
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
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    Post Marc "Animal" MacYoung

    The Five Stages Of Violent Crime - All Credit To Marc The Animal

    Click Here To Visit The Animal.
    While you may not agree with him 100% on everything...there is some incredibly valuable information contained on his site.
    Visit his site and read for a while.
    Warning!'ll be reading for weeks if you click on all of his text links.
    The site is set up like a spider web of related topics.

    NOTE: The Five Stages of Violent Crime is an internationally recognized system to identify if -- and determine when -- you are being set up for a crime. It has been tested in court as an easily explainable standard by which individuals determined if they were legally justified to use self defense tactics. The video, Safe in The Streets is used by police and military around the world as a training and teaching tool and the system is taught around the world in self defense and crime prevention courses.

    Nature of crime and violence
    There is a common maxim among safety experts: What you think you know will kill you.

    That saying applies in spades to avoiding crime and violence. It is often the very normalcy and familiarity of our surrounding that blinds us to significance of signals that pending danger broadcasts. To the victim, it just seems like the violence "came out of nowhere." In fact, there was plenty of warning, plenty of opportunity to recognize danger signals, dangerous circumstances, but the victim either ignored them, didn't see them or didn't recognize their significance. This is where what you "think" you know about crime and violence will blind you to these danger signals. With this in mind you must remember one critical rule:

    Crime is a process. It has both a goal and easily identifiable stages.

    Once you know about these stages, developing crime and violence are as obvious as a flare on a dark night. The analogy we use to explain this process is: Imagine you are driving to a friend's house. At first you have a wide choice of options to take to the general area. The closer you come to your destination, the more you *have* to turn here and go straight there. If you don't, you won't arrive at your destination.

    In the same vein, if a criminal intends to commit a crime his actions will become more predictable and more recognizable to someone who is aware of the process. There are things he *has* to do. If they are present, you are in danger.

    If these elements are *not* present, then there is no possibility of committing a crime. Therefore, you are not in danger.

    This is the beauty of the Five Stages system, it gives you an external set of standards to check against someone's behavior. If the collective behavior is present, you are, indeed, in danger and need to take steps to ensure your safety. And you need to do this no matter *what* the person is saying -- since his actions speak louder than his words.

    There is no one thing that will tell you you are in danger. This is why the collective checklist is so reliable. A single element might be misconstrued or explained away. However, you will never get the collective presence accidentally. If they are all there, it is intentional.

    Once you are aware of these stages they are easily countered by the Pyramid of Personal Safety.

    Important legal note:
    Most law enforcement and judicial systems have veered away from the word "intent" and instead prefer the more legally provable term of "jeopardy." That in essence means: Was the person acting in a manner consistent with a known threat?

    It is a fact that we are not mindreaders. We cannot truly know another person's intent. Jeopardy is -- in a legal sense -- a better term because it denotes "acting in a way that is known to be criminal." You are not reading his mind and trying to guess his intent. You are, instead, making decisions based on his actions in comparison to known dangers.

    This is an important and accurate distinction in regards to legally sanctioned use of force in self defense. However, since NNSD's primary goal is safety through avoidance of violence, we choose to stick with the older term "intent." We do this because we feel "jeopardy" is what the "collective of behaviors" define. Intent, interview, positioning, ability and opportunity are all parts of jeopardy.

    Another reason we retain the use of the word "intent "is because we are not *just* using it in a legal sense, but also with psychological and physiological connotations. Human beings are not normally capable of immediately becoming violent. Few people can shift from calm and reasonable one second to an enraged killing machine the next. We just don't go from zero to sixty that fast. Even the most violent person usually needs time to go through recognizable psychological and physiological changes in order to physically attack. Although subtle, the ensuing changes are often visually identifiable.

    This is how we can tell at a glance that someone is angry -- even if we are not conscious of what we saw that convinced us of this conclusion. We see enough subtle "signals" that our subconscious recognizes and we "know" the person is angry. These signals too are a collective. Where one signal might not mean much by itself, the sum is important. We unconsciously "read" signals like muscle tension, body posture, movement, breathing patterns, skin flush/paling, speech cadence, tone and word choice to tell if someone is angry. You may not consciously know you are doing this, but it is estimated that 80% of all communication is non-verbal -- we are constantly reading intent from these visual cues** . It will be your ability to "read body language" that will often be the determining factor whether or not to take evasive action. But before you can "read" it you have to know about it.

    It is not uncommon for a criminal or cunningly violent person to attempt to attempt to hide his intent in other, seemingly safe actions. He deceives you about his true intentions by hiding them in other, seemingly innocent actions and behaviors.

    However, person who is prepared to engage in physical violence will give off certain physiological signals. Literally his body will betray that fact. No matter how his words or behavior attempt to cover it. Often this collective set of signals is referred to as "vibes." And yes, someone who is prepared to commit violence gives off "bad" vibes. There is nothing esoteric or "woo-woo" about this. It is a collection of small signals that we unconsciously recognize. They range from physiological (Skin flush/pale, muscle tension, breathing, etc.,) to motion (how someone moves while under the influence of adrenaline) and to speech (cadence, tone, pitch).

    This is why so many people who are assaulted know something is wrong before, but just can't "put their finger on it" in time. They are confused by the conflicting messages. One part of them senses trouble, but because of the deception in the criminal's obvious behavior, they cannot clearly identify what is wrong.

    This is why it is important to use an established checklist to compare his behavior against. His words say one thing, but his actions and vibes say quite another. And *that* is what you base your course of action on, not what he is saying.

    Even if we are misreading someone's intent, we can use commonsense and remove ourselves from the presence of a person whose behavior we find disturbing - even if we cannot exactly define why. Common sense doesn't need a sanctioned legal precedence to be used.

    AOI (Short-hand version)
    What follows is a shorthand version of the Five Stages of Violent Crime. AOI stands for Ability, Opportunity and Intent. Although not as complete as the Five Stages, it will give you a quick-rule-of-thumb set of standards to determine whether or not you are in danger. For people who are not particularly interested in self-defense, it is a nice set of guidelines that can be to prevent yourself from being assaulted.

    There is a concept called the triangle among firefighters. Along each side is an element that a fire needs in order to burn. If you take away one of these elements, the triangle collapses and the fire goes out. Crime is the same: In order for it to occur, there must be three basic elements

    Continued.....To read more visit Marc and his web site by clicking this link.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array ssssthesnake's Avatar
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    Apr 2006
    heard some where about a sword master that atracted fights when he asked another master why every one was atacking him the other master said it was his aura like a unseen signal that he was looking for trouble i personaly try to give off a vibe that im not worth the trouble that it will take to acost me

  7. #6
    Member Array Bando's Avatar
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    Aug 2006
    Texas somewhere
    Any info that helps us to be more ready for the unexpected is a good tool. This is a good guide, although some of the reasoning seems a bit off to me. Quote: "If these elements are *not* present, then there is no possibility of committing a crime. Therefore, you are not in danger." uhhh. I can be in plenty of danger without being the target of an attack. This guide is not effective if you get caught in the middle of someone elses battle. Or you happen to run across someone who truly is crazy in the head. People do go nuts. And uhh.. on drugs too. They or him(writer refers to self as we) also says that most people that can become instantly violent are locked in mental wards. Take a walk through Dallas some time. The attitude of this article is that you can be truly aware of an attack because most attacks are by plotting thugs. "Most" people don't plan on being attacked at all. There is no all inclusive, fool proof method for being ready anywhere. The claims here are pretty tall. But I didn't read the entire site and I might just be ranting again...
    The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.

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