Do not throw the instructor out with the bath water

This is a discussion on Do not throw the instructor out with the bath water within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have made a few posts (and more will follow) stating the opinions of the instructor of the class I recently took. I have read ...

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Thread: Do not throw the instructor out with the bath water

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Do not throw the instructor out with the bath water

    I have made a few posts (and more will follow) stating the opinions of the instructor of the class I recently took. I have read some very "kind" responses about his opinions.

    One person commented that when an instructor has these types of dogmatic opinions, how good could the class actually be?

    Well, I have to say that opinions aside, the class was just outstanding. The instructor was certainly knowledgeable about his subject matter, his information was well researched, he used modern teaching techniques and all of what he taught was based in solid research or personal experience. I would not hesitate to take another class from this instructor or the school, as I am sure that this philosophy permeates the other instructors.
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    What would help would be to know what the purpose of the class was that you took. There are always some hard and fast rules that can't be broken that are taught to new shooters that are later taught to be not so written in stone in later training levels. This is done to build a base knowledge and works pretty good.
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    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    The class was called Intensive Handgun. It is designed to make you a faster and more accurate shooter. They taught techniques that I have not seen in other classes and I truly feel should be taught. I am sure they teach these techniques in their lower level classes like Defensive Handgun 1, 2, but I have taken these classes from other schools and this stuff just wasn't taught.

    Reading many of the comments, you guys think that the instructor is an incompetent boob. He wasn't. He was very good at what he does. His main philosophy is do what works, why waste your time with the other stuff. I truly felt that he has researched much of what knows and expressed opinions based on his experience and research.

    His qualifications were impressive. Ex-Ranger, seen combat, studies the research, only teaches stuff that is safe and what works. (He related one story about a handgun disarming move that a friend showed him. His friend asked him what he thought and he basically said, nice move but I would never use it. When asked why, he said that the muzzle of the gun went past your head. The reply was, ya, but only briefly. Now some may think this is a great technique, but he would never ever teach it when there are others that work just as well and are safer.)

    I truly liked his no nonsense, outcome based approach and, of course, with all information, you take it in and process it along side what else you know. You of course make your own decisions. Some of what he said, I could not use, like the sights post, but I would not hesitate to take another class again from him and his school.
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    I'm throwing that instructor out with the bathwater and then I'm tossing the bathtub and the bar of soap & the washcloth right out the window with them.

    Aren't you just a naturally fast & inherently more accurate shooter if you have an amazingly superior GLOCK handgun with you?
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    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
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    The way that I see it is since I didn't attend the class, all I have to go on is the limited information that you are giving me on this forum. And so far, I haven't read anything other than the opinions that he has given you about hardware. I know that everyone has their own views...
    Im glad that the class was good for you. It sounds like there was some real useful information along with the opinions. I would really like to read some of that too.

    I wouldn't throw him out until I actually attended his class and was able to draw my own conclusions.

    Im sorry if I missed it somewhere, could you tell me the name of the school and class that you took?
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    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    I have two rules I try to live by.

    1. Question authority. (Never accept anything merely because someone says it is so. I may accept it pending verification or based on past performance, but authority, including professed expertise must be vetted.

    2. Try to keep an open mind as their are almost always exceptions to everything.

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    A wise instructor of mine asks his class to keep an open mind. He is quick to state "what I teach is A way, not THE way, but while you're here try to digest what we teach you and give it an honest try." And just about any instructor who has a healthy enough (but not inflated) ego to try to earn a living by teaching firearms/shooting/combat techniques is going to have some strong opinions, hopefully based on experience. Our job as hopefully intelligent students (and consumers - we're paying for this experience) is to listen, absorb what we can, and weigh it against other information we've been taught and arrive at what is successful for us.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    A wise instructor of mine asks his class to keep an open mind. He is quick to state "what I teach is A way, not THE way, but while you're here try to digest what we teach you and give it an honest try."
    Absolutely.

    That's about as important a lesson as anything a person learns, in this life.

    Ayoob, for example, describes the "stressfire" techniques such as "crush grip" as being merely one alternative with certain advantages, one he'd like everyone to give a whirl, fully realizing (and stating) that it'll end up being up to each and every one of us to determine whether the pros/cons suit us.
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    Member Array azretired's Avatar
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    I attended a course years ago where I was one of two people with a Glock and the rest were 1911. The instructors were quick to tell us how great the 1911 and .45 ACP was but otherwise it was a good course. So I know how you feel. That said I googled the course and while I have heard of the school, I have never heard of the instructors. Glad you enjoyed the course.

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    Member Array chasbo00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExactlyMyPoint View Post
    The class was called Intensive Handgun. It is designed to make you a faster and more accurate shooter.
    If I wanted to shoot faster and more accurately, I would find a class/instructor that had lots of action pistol competition experience. What experience,skills and knowledge made your instructor qualified teach fast and accurate shooting and why did you think he or his course was a good way to learn fast and accurate shooting?

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I am sorry. Being ex or former anything military does not translate into gun fighting knowledge on a broad scale that always translate into useful civilian or, even LE uses.

    But I'm not knocking him personally, and he may have developed other skills that he teaches from other sources of experience. I just dont necessarily share his point of view on some of the issues you posted threads on.
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    Senior Member Array RKflorida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I am sorry. Being ex or former anything military does not translate into gun fighting knowledge on a broad scale that always translate into useful civilian or, even LE uses.

    But I'm not knocking him personally, and he may have developed other skills that he teaches from other sources of experience. I just dont necessarily share his point of view on some of the issues you posted threads on.
    I agree, I'm ex military if you count Navy as military. In 22 years I became expert on RADAR, electronics, coffee, liberty, and darts. Oh yeah, standing watches. If I hadn't personally collected guns and skeet shooting, I would have had no weapon experience. Unless you count Sparrow missiles and 20mm guns. OK, maybe some knowledge of bombs, big bombs. Kinda hard to carry a Sidewinder missile concealed though.
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