Yeager video on carrying with an empty chamber

This is a discussion on Yeager video on carrying with an empty chamber within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Thunder71 One example... would you put a camera man in the line of fire? This is who you want as your training ...

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Thread: Yeager video on carrying with an empty chamber

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    One example... would you put a camera man in the line of fire? This is who you want as your training instructor? Anything for a good shot, right?
    The Firearm Blog Highly controversial training video
    Ill let Yeagar answer this for you. I have never trained with him, but given the opportunity I would. I want to see what people fear in an instructor....


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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    FWIW, I wasn't referring to the military incident - I would never even attempt to judge him by what he did or didn't do while in the military. I'm not saying the guy is an idiot, and changed my original post to edit out the word tool as well. I just don't agree with his methods, and we certainly would never be buddies... his attitude has outgrown his shirts.

    Comparing what he did to being in an actual gun fight... wow, there's justification for you.

  4. #33
    Member Array 3wggl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnI View Post
    I'm well aware of what my statements were, and also the fact that they seem to have flown straight over your head.
    Please enlighten me. Your statement was "Lots of people have been killed by unchambered weapons too." My point all along is C3 allows for an unchambered weapon and unchambered weapons are not capable or firing and killing/injuring anyone. Now if by "unchambered weapons" you mean "chambered weapons that someone thinks is empty", than your not speaking of a C3 weapon which is not capable of hurting or killing anyone.

  5. #34
    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3wggl View Post
    I'm sure the gun carriers and innocents in these recent scenarios all wish that gun would have been in C3.
    Sounds to me like two out of three and, possibly, three of your scenarios involve either no holster or an inadequate holster, so..

    Quote Originally Posted by donttreadoni View Post
    I'm sure the gun carriers and innocents in these recent scenarios all wish that gun would have been in an adequate holster.
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  6. #35
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3wggl View Post
    Please enlighten me. Your statement was "Lots of people have been killed by unchambered weapons too." My point all along is C3 allows for an unchambered weapon and unchambered weapons are not capable or firing and killing/injuring anyone. Now if by "unchambered weapons" you mean "chambered weapons that someone thinks is empty", than your not speaking of a C3 weapon which is not capable of hurting or killing anyone.
    The bold is correct, and in a SD moment your gun is no better than a hammer. Thank you for making my point...
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  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3wggl View Post
    Please enlighten me. Your statement was "Lots of people have been killed by unchambered weapons too." My point all along is C3 allows for an unchambered weapon and unchambered weapons are not capable or firing and killing/injuring anyone. Now if by "unchambered weapons" you mean "chambered weapons that someone thinks is empty", than your not speaking of a C3 weapon which is not capable of hurting or killing anyone.
    Okay then, you're talking incidents that only involve a person actively concealed/open carrying and a gun "accidentally" fires and hurts/kills someone. I'd say it most definitely is an advantage to be carrying chambered and having that extra second then. But hey, we're only talking opinions here. That, and I trust that I am competent enough to carry chambered and be responsible, it's okay if you are not.
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    The bold is correct, and in a SD moment your gun is no better than a hammer. Thank you for making my point...
    How is my gun no better than a hammer? I can turn it into a lethal self defense tool in less than 2 seconds. Carrying in C1 would still take me just under 2 second to have ready. Very little difference.

  9. #38
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    3wggl the simple fact remains unless there is an actual mechanical problem with the gun causing it to go off without human interaction a ND/AD, whatever you want to call it, is the fault of the operator of the weapon. They touched the bang switch when they either were not supposed to or did not mean to, period.

    Yes not carrying a round chambered would have prevented this, leaving your car parked in the driveway will also prevent you from having an accident on the freeway but that would get kind of boring.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnI View Post
    Sounds to me like two out of three and, possibly, three of your scenarios involve either no holster or an inadequate holster, so..
    I totally agree these scenarios could have been avoided but they still occurred because of a loaded chamber and because people have and will continue to do stupid and irresponsible things. You can never eliminate the human factor and the many levels of negligence we're capable of and this is why C3 certainly has its merits.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3wggl View Post
    How is my gun no better than a hammer? I can turn it into a lethal self defense tool in less than 2 seconds. Carrying in C1 would still take me just under 2 second to have ready. Very little difference.
    Do you know fast it takes the BG to pull a trigger that is already pointed at you or your loved ones? Look dude, I don't care how you carry. But don't try to make it sound like it is a good tactical idea and you are prepared. The simple fact is you are at a disadvantage when being attacked from the git go. You further handicap yourself by not having one in the chamber. If you are not confident in your gun handling abilities or decision making abilities during times of stress then fine, carry that way. But to advocate it to me is not proper.

  12. #41
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3wggl View Post
    I agree and also struggle with each side of the argument as we don't have stats to go off of. What I do know is that every single concealed carry negligent discharge scenario I've read was caused by negligence with a gun with a loaded chamber/cylinder. I think of the guy that shot his wanker off in AZ adjusting his gun in his waist band, and the guy that dropped his pistol in Walmart and injured the child when the gun went off, and the gal who was shot in Detroit when she was hugging the off-duty cop (not sure we have the whole story on that one.....my point is chambered weapons + stupidity/carelessness can result in innocents being killed or injured. I'm sure the gun carriers and innocents in these recent scenarios all wish that gun would have been in C3.
    Key ingredients. Unfortunately we don't have a documented collection or compiled stats of an unchambered weapon thwarting stupidity/carelessness. The carriers in those incidents might wish they had carried unchambered, but I suspect they definitely wish they put more thought into how they holstered or handled the weapon. Then again, maybe not; people often react to disaster by blaming anything other than themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71
    Only a person can achieve the status of safe? That statement is scary... people are the cause of almost every non-safe, non-environmental situation known to man.
    I suppose I should have said "only a person can HOPE to achieve the status of safe." But you're right: it's still a scary thought.
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  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    3wggl the simple fact remains unless there is an actual mechanical problem with the gun causing it to go off without human interaction a ND/AD, whatever you want to call it, is the fault of the operator of the weapon. They touched the bang switch when they either were not supposed to or did not mean to, period.

    Yes not carrying a round chambered would have prevented this, leaving your car parked in the driveway will also prevent you from having an accident on the freeway but that would get kind of boring.
    Yes, thank you, you are exactly correct. People make mistakes and carrying in C3 can protect others from these mistakes. When people screw up with a loaded chamber, people can get hurt or killed.

  14. #43
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    How is my gun no better than a hammer? I can turn it into a lethal self defense tool in less than 2 seconds. Carrying in C1 would still take me just under 2 second to have ready. Very little difference.

    Well you are right when practicing that in your living room there is very little difference, however when someone is drawing a weapon, they already have a weapon in hand, whatever that weapon is, or they are physically attacking you, not on top of you but close enough to touch you, that "very little difference" becomes a lifetime. In other words you can have yours ready to go in just under two seconds, mine is ready to go in 1.25 from the holster, you will lose every single time but remember you only get one chance to make a first impression.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Do you know fast it takes the BG to pull a trigger that is already pointed at you or your loved ones? Look dude, I don't care how you carry. But don't try to make it sound like it is a good tactical idea and you are prepared. The simple fact is you are at a disadvantage when being attacked from the git go. You further handicap yourself by not having one in the chamber. If you are not confident in your gun handling abilities or decision making abilities during times of stress then fine, carry that way. But to advocate it to me is not proper.
    If a BG already has a gun pointed at me, he'll shoot me when I reach for my weapon whether it is C3 or C1. I'm toast either way if I reach for a weapon so I'm better off giving him whatever he wants or running.

    I do agree you are handicapping yourself for a certain set of circumstances when carrying C3 but my point is you can still face many SD scenarios just fine and you'll also ensure there is zero percent chance of a negligent discharge. I'm sure everyone that has had an ND and hurt/killed another were confident in their abilities and never expected it to happen. I'm sure they wish they would have been carrying C3 though.

  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3wggl View Post
    I totally agree these scenarios could have been avoided but they still occurred because of a loaded chamber and because people have and will continue to do stupid and irresponsible things. You can never eliminate the human factor and the many levels of negligence we're capable of and this is why C3 certainly has its merits.
    The gun being chambered is not the sole cause to any of these scenarios, it is just one of a long list of things that allowed each of these to happen. Yes, THE GUN WILL NOT GO OFF IN C3. That is something we agree on. Where we disagree is the viewpoint of if that is a good thing or not. You say yes, because you can rack the slide in 1.283940589 seconds, in the shape you are in now. I say no, because it is not ready to go, and realize that things happens that could cause you to not even to be able to rack the slide in the event you needed your firearm. What if someone opened fire on you and the first shot or two immobilized your off hand?
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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