Would you shoot....

This is a discussion on Would you shoot.... within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; [QUOTE=Spirit51;2386145]Let's go point by point. I already did. But okay, lets! Government classification includes gang banging teens and young adults. Where does that enter our ...

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  1. #76
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Spirit51;2386145]Let's go point by point. I already did. But okay, lets! Government classification includes gang banging teens and young adults. Where does that enter our conversation? The OP photo model is eight. Those are not "children" by any stretch of the imagination. "Second guessing my career choice"? Sure sounded like it. Not hardly. I have saved many lives and many of them good and decent people, Who gets to decide which is which? but when you do the job I did...you can't pick and chose So now that you're no longer on-the-job, you STILL don't get to pick & chose? who is worth it and who isn't. Everybody is "worth it", especially kids. You just do your best for everyone....I did and proud of it. "Sick of people"? Read your original post, you're the one who said it. Again wrong....I like many people and am liked by many. To be honest though....I get sick of people like you People like ME? I don't think I'm your problem, 'cause we just met. who make your judgements of people by a few sentences. I am well known for my sense of humor I SURELY missed that....just some things are not to be treated so caviler.

    I had made my decision before I knew either the age or the type of weapon, And you think THAT is wise? Weren't you the one who just used the word, uh..."caviler"? but how do you know what kind of weapon it is, in low light and tensions high. I guess you have the ability to look at someone and KNOW their age. Nope, no superhero skills here. Good for you.Thanks!

    I have been involved in high stress calls So have I and the call to use deadly force or not. I worked as a Special Weapons and Tactics Team Medic and we did carry and go on Missions. If I ever have to make that call....it will be because I believe my life or the life of innocents (like my family) is at stake and I would gladly go before any "Grand Jury" and explain intent, which is the important thing here. I just said I didn't believe the shooting justifications you gave HERE would wash. That doesn't scare me. I encourage courage. I believe this reasonable WOMAN Please excuse any unintended insult. would do just fine.

    You would rather die than defend yourself? The answer is much closer to yes when it's - me or an eight year old. Your choice. Thanks! The last thing I would do is knowingly kill anyone if it could be avoided I trust we ALL feel that way.....but how would you know it was mistakenly done? By taking more time to decide I guess the out come would be rather you are alive or not after it is over. I am looking at a weapon being pointed at me, by someone I don't know. By the time I ask his age I wouldn't ask, but I WOULD decide. ...I could be dead. Since in my experience I have been confronted by loaded guns and even have disarmed a couple of people...I know what the choices are and how quick it happens. Do you think you're the only one here who's been in harm's way? Save your "dressing down" for someone who is not experienced in stress situations and how to handle them. Better re-read your post. You just don't like to get what you give. Any time anyone gives a choice like the one here....it is not realistic and sends a tainted message. Nope, it just causes ME to stop & think. I have no idea what it does for you. My "morality" has kept me alive for many years and I haven't killed anyone yet. Again, you're the one who first played the "morality card". And I'm glad you're still alive! [/

    Look, I would happily go hungry to make sure that kid was fed. I would gladly give him my socks & shoes to cover his bare feet. I would write a hot check if it meant buying him a warm coat against the cold. I might even (gulp) steal one for him. I haven't always been kind, or compassionate, or concerned. In your life you tell of danger & experience. It sounds like it's made you admirably tough. I, too, have experienced my share of danger & tragedy. But it's had a surprising effect. It's made me an ol' softy. Don't get me wrong, if you take a pirate stand with me I'll go to great effort to burn you down. But all situations no longer require my most extreme skills or response. To me, true strength, true courage sometimes means NOT shooting, even when completely justified. And, like I said before, I'm not suggesting that ANYONE ELSE should take a chance with that kid. And I'm not holding any moral high-ground by seeing things my way. I'm just saying...that I would!.
    Last edited by ghost tracker; September 11th, 2012 at 01:49 PM.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

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  3. #77
    Member Array SgtRick's Avatar
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    The round fired from the weapon of a "child" is just as deadly as one fired by an adult. He won't live to see his next birthday. Here in Afghanistan as in other conflicts children have been used as fighters. I won't give this one the oppertunity to show me if he can or can't use his weapon.

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  4. #78
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    Variables are exactly the point. THAT I can agree with. I didn't see enough of them to make the call any other way. Any incident is the total of the sum. How is the lighting? Where is it? Does the person with the gun look like he knows what he is doing? A dark hoodie covering his face. How do I know his age? How far away if he? Is he close enough for me to slap the weapon away like Limatunes said? These all have to be evaluated in a split second. Judging anyone by their response ...for not wanting to die....is wrong and making this a measurement of one's humanity is REALLY wrong.

    If I were put in that position that I killed a youngster who was aiming a BB gun or real looking gun, a Grand Jury would be the least of my concerns to me. I believe that intent would hold up, but I would still have to live with the fact. THAT would be the bigger concern to me. But if that happened....I would need therapy for quite a while. Make no mistake....killing anyone would be a last resort for me, but you can only react to what you see to make that judgement in a split second.
    You have made up your mind what I would do, with out me saying what I would do. You have also said that this scenario was setup and bogus. I disagree with the later, this can be used as a mental exercise on judgement. When we were kids they didnt have airsoft, they didnt have a BB gun that looked exactly like a 1911. Things of this nature have to be visited to make sure that our mindset is in the proper place. I hope that last statement about mindset clues you into were I am at with a situation like this....

  5. #79
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    I wonder how many of the people that say they would shoot have small kids or grand kids?

    No, I wouldn't shoot even if it meant me taking a hit. I've worked with troubled kids of all ages over the years and have had weapons pulled & have been physically attacked. I also have two kids and my house is a hang out for kids 8-15. Some of them are troubled kids that come from bad backgrounds & absentee or worthless parents. I love them all & would rather die than to see any harm come to them.

    I will protect my family at all costs. But, this little guy isn't some gangbanger thug of the street.

    -
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  6. #80
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRick View Post
    The round fired from the weapon of a "child" is just as deadly as one fired by an adult. He won't live to see his next birthday. Here in Afghanistan as in other conflicts children have been used as fighters. I won't give this one the oppertunity to show me if he can or can't use his weapon.
    Agreed, baby bullets kill as fast as grown-up bullets. Yet the scenario wasn't in Afghanistan, it was in my house. The intruder wasn't a conscripted child-soldier, I just walked in on him (B&E?). The whole OP (I believe) was created to allow us the opportunity to make a snap decision, WITHOUT the tragic legal, moral, financial or psychological repercussions. And, even after the details are disclosed, y'all just keep telling me how dead he is & how righteous your actions are. Am I the only one here who believes that adults have the responsibility for a higher level of good-judgment & discretion than children, even when the child is VERY dangerously devoid...of both?

    If he were about to leap to his death, would you climb out on a narrow ledge to stop him? If he were cornered in an alley by vicious dogs, would you risk stepping in front of him? Even if he had kicked & taunted the dogs? Or would you just decide he had made his own (8 year old) bed and deserves the lesson. Again, y'all can have any & every opinion that you care to. I can think of almost nothing that an 8 year old could do, no mistake or bad decision he could make that could justify me killing him. Eight year olds (even "armed" 8 year olds) just don't frighten me THAT much. Just how jaded ARE you?
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  7. #81
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    I wonder how many of the people that say they would shoot have small kids or grand kids?

    No, I wouldn't shoot even if it meant me taking a hit. I've worked with troubled kids of all ages over the years and have had weapons pulled & have been physically attacked. I also have two kids and my house is a hang out for kids 8-15. Some of them are troubled kids that come from bad backgrounds & absentee or worthless parents. I love them all & would rather die than to see any harm come to them.

    I will protect my family at all costs. But, this little guy isn't some gangbanger thug of the street.

    -
    Thanks T,
    Me too! I was beginning to think I was the only guy that might show that 8 year-old something other than a muzzle flash.
    Last edited by ghost tracker; September 11th, 2012 at 05:07 PM.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  8. #82
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    So you will die. Rest in peace.
    and you will be in prision getting banged in your backside for shooting a kid. I see this as a very dangerious situation but not one where shooting the kid fixs anything. We are not talking about a bad guy backed into a corner. In the time you can pull your gun you can back out the same door you came into or throw a couch cushion to knock the little kid down.... or shoot him a tell everyone what a hero for saving your family member. You'll find people of gun boards that may agree with you but in the real world where most people choose anything but shooting someone first, you will be a peice of ..

  9. #83
    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    I wonder how many of the people that say they would shoot have small kids or grand kids?

    No, I wouldn't shoot even if it meant me taking a hit. I've worked with troubled kids of all ages over the years and have had weapons pulled & have been physically attacked. I also have two kids and my house is a hang out for kids 8-15. Some of them are troubled kids that come from bad backgrounds & absentee or worthless parents. I love them all & would rather die than to see any harm come to them.

    I will protect my family at all costs. But, this little guy isn't some gangbanger thug of the street.

    -

    But what if he was?
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

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  10. #84
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    O'yea I would

  11. #85
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tcox4freedom

    I wonder how many of the people that say they would shoot have small kids or grand kids?

    No, I wouldn't shoot even if it meant me taking a hit. I've worked with troubled kids of all ages over the years and have had weapons pulled & have been physically attacked. I also have two kids and my house is a hang out for kids 8-15. Some of them are troubled kids that come from bad backgrounds & absentee or worthless parents. I love them all & would rather die than to see any harm come to them.

    I will protect my family at all costs. But, this little guy isn't some gangbanger thug of the street.

    -

    Quote Originally Posted by ZX9RCAM View Post
    But what if he was?




    Then toss a chocolate cookie at him and take his gun....
    tcox4freedom likes this.

  12. #86
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Same kid, same gun, same evil hoodie: except now he is on the street instead of your home.

    What do you do?

  13. #87
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    Same kid, same gun, same evil hoodie: except now he is on the street instead of your home.

    What do you do?
    Drive away, call his mother, the police... yell boo and take his gun??? Still not shoot him

  14. #88
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    Drive away, call his mother, the police... yell boo and take his gun??? Still not shoot him
    Well, hopefully some 9-year-old will never shoot you or a loved one.

    We'd all like to pretend this is just fictional and never happens in real life...

  15. #89
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    While with a kid it may take more to convince me it is a threat if I see it as a deadly threat and am convinced it is then yes I would shoot, and shoot the same as if it was a grown up. I do see my OODA loop time being long on this type of threat though. So if it was a true threat first shot could easily be his, but my mindset is to continue the fight even if shot so he gets his. Unless he can get a one shot kill on me.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  16. #90
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    Well, hopefully some 9-year-old will never shoot you or a loved one.

    We'd all like to pretend this is just fictional and never happens in real life...
    The Gospel Of Christ: The perfect message delivered by imperfect messengers!

    I'm really having a hard time how your posts and you tag line came from the same person.... So you will shoot a 8 year old that "MIGHT" shoot you?

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