Would you shoot....

This is a discussion on Would you shoot.... within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tcox4freedom My wife- If I get shot he gets shot most likely by both my wife & me. I'm glad some of ...

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  1. #106
    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    My wife- If I get shot he gets shot most likely by both my wife & me.

    I'm glad some of you have real world experience with armed & dangerous 8yr olds. But, this is not Afgan nor any other country that uses children as suicide bombers. (at least not yet)

    Like I said, I've spent great deal of my life working with troubled kids. (First as one, then as a minister)

    I find the original post as one where I think my chances of being able to disarm & diffuse the situation would be pretty good. (Besides, the chances are good that I would survive a shot from a Hg anyway.)

    You wanna kill an 8yo kid, then face a murder charge because he had a toy gun?

    "Good luck with THAT!"

    Honestly, this thread has gotten a little ridiculous.

    -
    So, you would shoot him then......but only after he shoots you first.
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

    -Will Rogers

    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

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  3. #107
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Gun happy? Am I the only one who finds it somewhat offensive to call a homeowner who is surprised to find an intruder in their home as gun happy?

    Michael
    Nope, you are not alone.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
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  4. #108
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    The Gospel Of Christ: The perfect message delivered by imperfect messengers!

    I'm really having a hard time how your posts and you tag line came from the same person.... So you will shoot a 8 year old that "MIGHT" shoot you?
    Perhaps you should read it further.

    Nothing in my Bible tells me I have to roll over and belly up for anyone. There's a big difference in being a martyr for Christ being just plain stupid.

    Remember though: it does say I'm imperfect. I don't have all this super insight you seem to have as to what the kids intentions are.
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  5. #109
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post

    Like I said, I've spent great deal of my life working with troubled kids. (First as one, then as a minister)
    I've worked with troubled kids in a ministry myself. Some of the things I've seen kids capable of is the very reason I would shoot.

    You wanna kill an 8yo kid, then face a murder charge because he had a toy gun?
    You seem hung up on 'toy gun'. 8-year-olds have been know to get the real thing.

  6. #110
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    I've worked with troubled kids in a ministry myself. Some of the things I've seen kids capable of is the very reason I would shoot.

    You seem hung up on 'toy gun'. 8-year-olds have been know to get the real thing.
    Yes they have. (You seem to be hung up on killing 8yr olds just because they have a gun.)


    I'm wondering if you remember the post I made a couple of years ago about my 10yr old son taking a pistol away from one of his friends & carrying it to the kids aunt?

    What concerned me with people like you is the fact that if you saw my 10yr old son with a handgun knocking on your door, you seem to have the attitude "SHOOT" first.

    My son averted a tragedy that day & quite possibly saved someone else's sons life. It saddens me to think if he would have come to your house you may just shoot him.


    (For all we know, the kid in the OP may just be returning a gun your kid got a hold of at school. Remember; you're the one that said kids can get a hold of guns.)

    I myself have taken 8yr olds to the range & taught them how to shoot. One thing I do with with boys I minister to is take them to the range. All of them have become excellent marksmen.

    But, I still can't say for sure that I would shoot in the given scenario. There are just to many variables that have been left out. All I can say is I once was a tough street kid that did pull guns & do mean stuff to people. I'm just thankful that a loving adult showed me some grace & took a little pity on me. So, I have NO problem playing it forward.

    I'm no coward & I'm not afraid to die for what I believe in. (I believe in helping kids NOT killing them.)

    Would I kill one of the kids I'm ministering to if backed in a corner?

    YES!!!

    The kids know I truly love & care for them--AND --they also know I would bust a cap if I was forced to. This dynamic is one reason I am respected & can walk down some of the most dangerous streets in my city & walk up to some of the meanest kids you would NEVER want to meet.


    I just got back from church where I've been taking 4-6 of these kids & their (recovering) drug addict mom to church for several weeks now. I would much rather been doing that than attending their funerals!
    (How about you?)


    -

  7. #111
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    I would much rather been doing that than attending their funerals!
    (How about you?)


    -
    Yes, of course.

    Sometimes there will be no choice.
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  8. #112
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if you remember the post I made a couple of years ago about my 10yr old son taking a pistol away from one of his friends & carrying it to the kids aunt?

    What concerned me with people like you is the fact that if you saw my 10yr old son with a handgun knocking on your door, you seem to have the attitude "SHOOT" first.

    My son averted a tragedy that day & quite possibly saved someone else's sons life. It saddens me to think if he would have come to your house you may just shoot him.


    (For all we know, the kid in the OP may just be returning a gun your kid got a hold of at school. Remember; you're the one that said kids can get a hold of guns.)

    What if it was a friend of your son's. He was waiting for you because he heard you were a safe adult. He doesn't know the firearm safety rules. But, he knows leaving a gun on the ground for his little sister to find is NOT good. So, he comes to your house, you son let's him inside. He hear's you coming in so he comes running to give you the gus so everything will be safe.

    You shoot him (then, uh oh)

    How would you feel?

    All I'm saying is we just can't have a written in stone response; even IF some kids is pointing a gun at us.

    Peace & God Bless
    -

  9. #113
    Member Array lilmule's Avatar
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    uh read it all 5 dogs prior,doubt if much left and id rather face a seasoned veteran than her and that darn 25 acp she aims low,so do they
    5

    Lastly no normal 8 year old could break in,nor could wander in trough a locked door.
    So all mute they may however be young,that should not matter.
    Stop the threat,if in stopping it their life goes with it so be it.
    If your unwilling to shoot an intruder get rid of the gun,your just furnishing them with one.

  10. #114
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    my 10yr old son with a handgun knocking on your door,
    -
    Key difference VS "already inside my house".

  11. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRick View Post
    My intent is merely to offer my action to resolve this particular conflict scenario you have presented. I didn't present it. I just said that I would NOT shoot the child. Obviously we differ in how we would approach this situation. I have trained in the Marines since 1980 and more than likely have been in a few situations you haven’t. 32 years in The Corps. Thank you for your service! Yet please don't imagine shooting or being shot is, uh...theoretical to me. It isn't. We'll skip trading scary stories. Again no intent to be confrontational. Since this particular juvenile delinquent choose my home to B&E with a weapon with an obvious intent on doing me or my family harm he will get shot. You're filling-in a lot of undisclosed details to boost the justification of your opinion. Period. I will not analyze why an 8 year old has a weapon pointed in my direction, Isn't that very analysis at least part of our responsibility? in my house, when he should be elsewhere. All I see is a weapon, no more, no less. If it was Grandma, Santa Clause, Bambi, the mailman, or my next door neighbor, the same fate will apply. You will get 2 in the chest and 1 in the head, without hesitation. Rule number 1 as it applies to gunfights is there is no such thing as a fair fight. He who hesitates usually dies. Offer him milk and cookies and turn on Nickoloadian if that’s your approach. His will probably be to start unloading in your direction. No time for Plan B now. People who have CCW’s and carry in public should have already made the conscience decision that if need be you could take another person’s life. If you can’t then leave your weapon at home. Be careful, you're going past confrontational and heading fast toward condescending. If there is a weapon pointed at me by someone 8 or 80, you’re going to have a very bad day. And no….I am not “jaded”. I am a realist with real world experience sir.
    Sir, you seem quite sure of what everyone should do, "People who have CCW's and carry in public...". I thought it was up to the person behind the trigger? What I find most interesting is; that in over three decades of Marine training, your only possible response to a weapon pointed in your direction is "2 in the chest and 1 in the head". No situational awareness, no thought, no discretion, just shoot. Well, that makes you a fine Devil Dog, yet I'm not sure it makes you quite the responsible concealed weapon licensee that you believe yourself to be. Go ahead, indiscriminately shoot 8 year-olds, plus "Grandma, Santa Clause, Bambi. the mailman, or my next door neighbor". Yes, it's a razor's edge. Yes, it's life & death. But a civilian homicide has an ENTIRELY different set of legal, societal and moral thresholds & repercussions than does a homicide committed as an act of war. You conveniently didn't answer the questions about whether you would help the same child in other potentially fatal circumstances that he also "put himself into". When shooting doesn't solve a problem, are you out of answers? By the way, I'm not being confrontational either. You just seem to be scolding me for my unwillingness to kill an 8 year-old. Let's stay on subject & skip the scolding,
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  12. #116
    Senior Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    Any one offended by my use of the term "Gun Happy" just imagine, God forbid, one of you have to shoot someone and the attorney from the other side doesn't read some of the things posted here. Gun happy will be one of the nicest terms you need to worry about.

    Sorry but this is just my opinion, I see no situation that shooting an eight year old is the best answer. Just my opinion!

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  13. #117
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    The kid in the picture doesn't have his finger on the trigger - so I wouldn't shoot. (Would I be able to tell that while scrambling for cover? That's a topic for another thread!
    Ben

    Cogito, ergo armatum sum.
    I think, therefore I am armed.


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  14. #118
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenGoodLuck View Post
    The kid in the picture doesn't have his finger on the trigger - so I wouldn't shoot. (Would I be able to tell that while scrambling for cover? That's a topic for another thread!
    Best read the entire post. The photographer says his finger IS on the trigger. But even when I zoomed-in, I couldn't tell for sure.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  15. #119
    Distinguished Member Array GunGeezer's Avatar
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    If the little bugger just popped out when I walked into my house, how would I know if he wasn't a psychotic midget? If he just started firing I most likely wouldn't have time to draw. If he simply stood there pointing the gun in that picture, I could tell by the size of the hole in the barrel it was either a pellet or BB gun and I would try in my most commanding voice to disarm him. Either that or I would scream like a girl for him not to shoot.

    I was born and raised in the city of Chicago. 70 yrs. later, I still lock my car or my house if I walk out the door, even if it's only to get the paper. If an 8 yr. old is standing in my house, he had to have help picking the locks or breaking windows. I would have to be in condition red.

    My points here are that there are too many different scenarios to paint them all with the same brush. I could never say ,in a case like this what I would do until it happens. If its my time to die, it could happen in a worse way.

  16. #120
    Member Array JerryMac's Avatar
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    Tough question......what is he doing in my house, in the dark with a hoodie and a gun.....if i could see it was a child, would try to evade first, but what do you do if lead statts flying at you....tough one till faced with it.....if it is light, i would think i could tell pretty fast what is going on, real or not, on the gun where his finger is and his age...otherwise, i cannot honestly answer this...
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

    I asked my stock broker the other day, what I should be investing in ....his reply, canned goods n ammo !!!

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