This is a discussion on Combat Accuracy within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; "Combat accuracy" is a concept that is detrimental to a shooter's development in training, especially beginners. Many shooters espouse this type of "accuracy" and train ...
September 9th, 2012 11:43 PM
"Combat accuracy" is a concept that is detrimental to a shooter's development in training, especially beginners. Many shooters espouse this type of "accuracy" and train using it as the marker. Throwing rounds as fast as you can without command of the weapon is useless. Run the gun...don't let the gun run you.
While training to become proficient and "one" with the gun, mastery of fundamentals is quintessential. Speed will come with proper training...it's inevitable...be patient.
Strive to get to a place in your training to be able to have tight groups at speed. Speed and accuracy are NOT mutually exclusive and can certainly coexist. Aspire to excellence. The ability to hit shots from 15-25 yards at speed is also crucial and will translate to faster and more accurate hits at close distances.
Shooting fast at three yards and hitting thoracic is not an art. When training, your groups should be as tight as possible (and continue getting tighter as time goes by coupled with speed), since they will open up when you're hit with an adrenaline dump. If you are merely in thoracic in training, you will probably miss the intended target completely when it counts most.
Combat accuracy has it's place...in combat/defensive shootings...since adrenaline will probably dictate as such.
September 9th, 2012 11:43 PM
September 10th, 2012 12:51 AM
Most of the forum thinks about one on one defensive scenarios. You and I might think of combat since that's essentially what it is. Combat is generally associated with war and that in foreign lands. Combat accuracy isn't much of a concern when Uncle Sam is supplying the ammo and you have a full auto weapon....unless you're on extended deployment with a fixed amount of ammo. The regular civilian whom carries, seldom thinks of entering into combat even though this may end up being a fact after the fact. Concepts may be taught, and sometimes rather easy to learn....however...........you can only teach those willing to learn. How many average citizens does this leave out? How many are willing to take the class even if the class were free? The real world is a lot different than the ideal world. This is where plenty of differences arise and become defined.
September 10th, 2012 08:31 AM
I am of the opinion if you are in a life or death struggle of ANY kind you are in combat. At that point all threats should be engaged the same way ie; engage and destroy. I agree with Phoenix that you train for the smallest group at speed. You should be able to run your gun without conscious thought.
You WILL revert to your training in a life threatening situation. If you have no training you MAY not vapor lock, you may not. Why take the chance?
September 10th, 2012 09:01 AM
It has been said by those better versed than me that in combat, one falls to the lowest level of training. Based on what I have experienced in force on force training scenarios, I agree: adreneline dumps; tunnel vision; auditory exclusion and vapor lock. In one scenario, I was three feet from the good guy, screaming "shoot the guy in the tan shirt" at the top of my lungs. The good guy heard nothing.
Originally Posted by 40Bob
Kahn Souphanousinphone, Sr. "I could be manic, could be depressed. Real crapshoot."
September 10th, 2012 05:49 PM
That is why we train, I would much rather that understanding come out in training. Kinda like my first bad adrenaline dump, the shaking and nausea afterwords, the old SGT came by slapping me on the shoulder and said " It's just adrenaline, you will be fine".
Originally Posted by Mike1956
September 10th, 2012 05:52 PM
Many use it for an excuse for No Accuracy............IMO.
September 10th, 2012 07:58 PM
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Glock 17, Dale Fricke Archangel, Wilderness Tactical belt.
September 10th, 2012 08:16 PM
This is something that I've just began trying to achieve (and am still far from).
I decided awhile ago that being one of the people that set up a target at 3-5 yards, get COM hits (all over the place) and just dump a few mags into the same target for another thirty minutes (not knowing where each shot is hitting) was NOT what I would be comfortable with. Although there is plenty of them at my range.
This is why I have to know where each shot is going. Its also why I decided I wanted my carry gun to be one that I can get a full grip on, and its why I feel I have to get to the range ATLEAST every other week.
I am far from where I want to be with accuracy, not even really working on speed yet.
But I love the thought of being able to hit 3" groups at 10-15 yards consistently and at good speed - one day, hopefully sooner than later. But this is definitely something I want to be capable of and am currently striving for.
The stupidity of some people NEVER ceases to amaze me.
CC from the time I get out of bed til I get back in.
September 10th, 2012 10:16 PM
Thanks for all the great comments.
September 11th, 2012 02:25 PM
I usually set up steel targets when shooting my pistol, so its hard to judge how tight my groups are. Its either a hit (ping) or a miss.
This has me thinking that I need to take some paper targets to the hills when I go shooting.
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein
"People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."
September 11th, 2012 04:09 PM
To me "Combat Accuracy" is being able to hit the kill zone of COM while you are moving, with enough speed to win race of getting first hit and winning the fight. I don't see bullseye accuracy having a place while in a gunfight. A 8" COM 3-5 round grouping I see being better than a 1" group in COM, because you have a better chance of damaging more vital parts in the BG by spreading the love a little.
Do you need to be able to shoot a bullseye grouping? Yes, so if you ever need it you have it but most gunfights will not call for it.
Some say to shoot for group at 10-25 yds. I shoot a lot of 5 shot groups at 3 yds trying for a 1 hole grouping. I have shot one hole groups but a big hole, but no middle.
I do agree with this statement
But once you have the fundamental down then train and practice to kill the SOB. Learn to see what you need to see to make the hits while moving and GOTX. Work on making that first shot a hit and be first (the better that first hit is the more you effect his OODA loop. So work to make the first one a good one) then continue to shoot him to the ground. In a gunfight there is no such thing as one shot kills. Why because you have already shot him more times than that before he can fall.
While training to become proficient and "one" with the gun, mastery of fundamentals is quintessential.
It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45
"Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes
September 29th, 2012 07:09 PM
Your definition of "combat accuracy" is correct when applied to an actual defensive shooting incident...which is the only proper application of the terminology IMHO. However, if your best during TRAINING is all over the place in thoracic and someone else's best is a tight group in the same exact time, the other person has an advantage in a defensive shooting scenario assuming both have the same mindset, situational awareness and response to the threat time. What if under the adrenaline dump of an actual shooting your groups open?
The point I was making is that many are fooling themselves or are being fooled into thinking that being all over the place in thoracic from 3 yards is a good gauge of proficiency while training. Aspire to be excellent and evolve. Make sure your fundamentals are in place and speed will come.
Originally Posted by hayzor
September 29th, 2012 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by PhoenixTS
If I'm putting in groups of 5 inches, under stress, I want to push for 3 inches. I want to push for 2. For 1. For a cloverleaf and then the rounds just going right on top of each other.
And when I can do that, I want to be able to do it faster.
There's no limit to improvement. All that I want to be is better than I was yesterday. :)
September 30th, 2012 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by tsiwrx
November 3rd, 2012 09:23 PM
Combat accuracy is a viable concept, but one must have a grasp of the fundamentals before applying it. If you are not capable of accurate fire, your "combat accuracy" is going to land your rounds in the next county.
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