Is there a good reason for FOF training?

This is a discussion on Is there a good reason for FOF training? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The thing with FOF to me is it tells you "YES I can or NO I can not defend myself in a SHTF situation. The ...

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Thread: Is there a good reason for FOF training?

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    The thing with FOF to me is it tells you "YES I can or NO I can not defend myself in a SHTF situation. The practice and training you have under your belt is soon exposed as to its worth, be it good or bad. Better to find this fact out while going up against airsoft as to when you face a real gun.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    One of the best things is it reinforces exploding from the X. As has been posted and proven everytime, if you stand and deliver you are gonna be shot. Moving to the right makes a right handed shooter move in a manner that makes tracking you more difficult than moving to the left.

    And of course as Scotty pointed out, the emphasis should be on properly structured training.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    One of the best things is it reinforces exploding from the X. As has been posted and proven everytime, if you stand and deliver you are gonna be shot. Moving to the right makes a right handed shooter move in a manner that makes tracking you more difficult than moving to the left.

    And of course as Scotty pointed out, the emphasis should be on properly structured training.
    Does that mean the Benny Hill FoF course we took doesnt count......
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  5. #34
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    While I would in no way try to equate FOF to a real life gunfight, it does get us used to seeing a pistol pointed at us. And a living breathing human being holding that pistol. That is something most people are not used to seeing. If the first time we see a pistol pointed at us, especially in a life and death situation, more often than not, there will be panic. Panic doesn't lend itself to optimum performance. Of course, there will always be some degree of panic regardless of the type training you do. If our shooting is confined to paper plates, milk bottle shaped targets or pieces of steel, that is what our brain will get used to recognizing as a target to be shot at. Combine that with normal abhorrence to taking human life and it's easy to see why the brain goes "tilt" and trained competent people fail so often. My opinon, it's much less a markmanship issue than it is a cognition issue.

    I like the Bruce Lee quote "If you want to learn to swim, jump into the water. On dry land, no frame of mind is ever going to help you".

  6. #35
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    Widely sanctioned-courses emphasize NEVER pointing a gun at people, using politically-correct targets instead of ones featuring a teen-ager pointing a gun at you, never calling your gun a weapon, bench-rest qualification, etc. What these fail to cover and the things they do to to one's mindset when it goes pear-shaped is predictable.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Judging from the lack of responses, I take it not many here regard force on force training to be relevant. Interesting, given the title of website.
    Not all of us have time to be keyboard commandos every day!

    FoF is very relevant. It is good to see my employer finally starting mandated FoF for all of us, including sim guns, and "stress" shooting with live ammo, though with with several thousand of us, it takes a two-year cycle to get all of us through each one-day class, and it took longer than that to get each of us through a multi-day class. This training is not as strenuous and individual as private training, of course. I had already trained with SouthNarc's and Paul Gomez' in ECQC, and attended Steve Tarani seminars, and had advocated for FoF as part of in-service training.

    Another good thing: Our qual course was made much faster-paced a few years ago. I had wished for, and advocated, resuming the 25-yard distance we used in the 1980s, rather than the more recent 15 yards, as our newest range has a 25-yard line. Thus far, however, the qual course's longest shots remain at 15 yards.

    My agency had at least two OIS incidents over the weekend, and it seems our hit ratio was certainly far better than 20%.

    My one defensive shot, thus far, back in 1993, hit the bad guy's X-ring, but as we were just beyond being able to touch
    fingertips, I reckon 25-yard training would not have been applicable. (LEOs have certainly missed the whole bad guy at the same distance, however.)

  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    As for distance, I have driven several hours each way to attend ECQC, and drove from SE Texas to Titusville, FL for the Snubby Summit. (The latter was a one-time event, but I am so very grateful I went, as I was able to meet a number of instructors, and attend several mini-classes, in order to better evaluate where I would like to train in the future.)

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexster View Post
    As for distance, I have driven several hours each way to attend ECQC, and drove from SE Texas to Titusville, FL for the Snubby Summit. (The latter was a one-time event, but I am so very grateful I went, as I was able to meet a number of instructors, and attend several mini-classes, in order to better evaluate where I would like to train in the future.)
    TDI is a three-hour drive from my place. I'll be attending at least two and possibly three more classes next year. I might even be able to slide in a defensive knife course later this year, depending on how my schedule shakes out. I have yet to be disappointed in the instructors or the caliber of training offered there.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexster View Post
    Not all of us have time to be keyboard commandos every day
    I deserved that one, no doubt.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I deserved that one, no doubt.
    No you didn't. You got the thread moving. This a conversation that needs to happen and I believe you are right, most people don't do FOF. I wonder if most people know what it is. On a local forum I go to very very few know what FOF is and far less have done it. And very few want to do it. As a matter of fact it tends to make them mad when those of us that have done it talk about it. Toy guns and all, "real men shoot real guns". Yeah I know, clueless. But they seem to be happy that way. Anyway, good job keeping the thread going.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick21 View Post
    No you didn't. You got the thread moving. This a conversation that needs to happen and I believe you are right, most people don't do FOF. I wonder if most people know what it is. On a local forum I go to very very few know what FOF is and far less have done it. And very few want to do it. As a matter of fact it tends to make them mad when those of us that have done it talk about it. Toy guns and all, "real men shoot real guns". Yeah I know, clueless. But they seem to be happy that way. Anyway, good job keeping the thread going.
    It gets them out of their comfort zone.

    Coming home with AirSoft welts on their body isn't as ego-satisfying as shooting one-hole groups at 7yds with their $3000 1911.

  13. #42
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    For people that protect the rest of us I think at home or over seas I think it's a great idea. For personal defense or home protection, that's thats great too...if you want to but far from necessary.

    I think the overwhelming majority of case show most individuals who successfully defend themselves of their homes have little or no training

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  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    It gets them out of their comfort zone.

    Coming home with AirSoft welts on their body isn't as ego-satisfying as shooting one-hole groups at 7yds with their $3000 1911.
    The number of people who quit the fight as soon as they got popped by an Airsoft in a simulation is pretty remarkable. By the end of the day, every one of them was finishing no matter how many times they were hit. Things one can't come by punching paper.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  15. #44
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    For people that protect the rest of us I think at home or over seas I think it's a great idea. For personal defense or home protection, that's thats great too...if you want to but far from necessary.

    I think the overwhelming majority of case show most individuals who successfully defend themselves of their homes have little or no training

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    While you may be right in the fact that there are many who are successfully in their defending themselves. BUT does it matter to the one who was not? This lack luster response to any and all things in life is what I see as one of the problems with todays american people. A just get by attitude is not what made this country in the past.

    Yes there is just so much time and money but we find both for that which is important in our life. The question fall to your answer to this question, how important is the defense of me and my family? We all live or die by our decision.

    While I don't know the facts in anyone's elses life I will never tell someone they don't need to train. I can not make anyone train or not train but I will not lead them to believe they have no need to train as all situation are different.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    For people that protect the rest of us I think at home or over seas I think it's a great idea. For personal defense or home protection, that's thats great too...if you want to but far from necessary.

    I think the overwhelming majority of case show most individuals who successfully defend themselves of their homes have little or no training

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    I have seldom seen the lack of training of those who have successfully defended themselves even mentioned. Here is one, however whose training paid huge dividends. Motel Robbery Thwarted - YouTube
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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