Is there a good reason for FOF training?

This is a discussion on Is there a good reason for FOF training? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SCXDm9 I think you are preaching to the choir... I think its a great thing but by no means necessary. I mean ...

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 93
Like Tree27Likes

Thread: Is there a good reason for FOF training?

  1. #61
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,435
    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    I think you are preaching to the choir... I think its a great thing but by no means necessary. I mean to say "The question fail to your answer to this question, how important is the defense of me and my family? We all live or die by our decision." is a bit of fear mongering IMO...if you look at the odds your money would be far better spent on advanced first aid training or defensive driving skills, even better nutrition.

    For you make a statement that seems to imply it is somehow irrersponsible not to have FOF training to protect your family would be like me implying your paranoia is more likely to harm your family than my lack of FOF training will affect mine.
    As to the part you had in bold of my post "The question fall to your answer to this question, how important is the defense of me and my family? We all live or die by our decision." I go back to what was before that line "Yes there is just so much time and money but we find both for that which is important in our life."We all have the same problems in life (time and money) we all make our choice as to how and on what we spend both on. As to defense we make that choice based on what we believe to be the likely hood of an attack on us. We then spend our money and time accordingly. And yes we all we have to live or die with what we choose in the past as when we are face to face with what ever comes our way it is to late to say (OH WAIT A MINUTE I NEED TO GO BACK FOR A DO OVER). So what ever you choice in life better be right the first time. Only you can make that choice. (and this applies to more than just a gun in your life)

    But when it comes to self defense I feel its better to be better trained than one needs than to need to be better trained and not have it. So my advice is to train all one can.

    As to this line in your post "if you look at the odds your money would be far better spent on advanced first aid training or defensive driving skills, even better nutrition. " My next class the last weekend of this month is TRAUMA MEDICINE FOR THE CCW OPERATOR and I'm working on a better nutrition diet and losing some weight.

    So which of this thing you mention are you working on? Or do you have it all under control and there is no need for anything new?
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #62
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Northeast Alabama
    Posts
    716
    On the 'time and money' thing, most all of us would be better off if we bought an FOF training class rather than the newest gun on the cover of Guns & Ammo.

  4. #63
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    508
    I learned more in 2 days of FOF training than in any other training combined. Would love to do another class.
    Luis

    "Everybody's got a plan, 'til they get hit".

    Mike Tyson

  5. #64
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    1,261
    I guess I'm not a very good communicator because my point has been lost. I think FOF is fine, even great if you want to do it however, to say its necessary or you are somehow not doing you duty as a parent if you've not had FOF training passed a SEAL adventure class or spent hours searching for the perfect bullet is BS!

    How many of you hop into your car, put on a helmet and strap in with a 6 point harness? None of you? OMG why not? You are far more likey to need that than FOF training... oh yeah... thats not nearly as much fun nor does it allow you to pump up your super gun operator/neighborhood Rambo egos.

    I would enjoy a FOF class and may one day take one, not because I think its living on the edge not to but because I enjoy guns and think I would be fun, not out of some misguided story I tell myself to justify why I'm taking it.

  6. #65
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    7,160
    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    I guess I'm not a very good communicator because my point has been lost. I think FOF is fine, even great if you want to do it however, to say its necessary or you are somehow not doing you duty as a parent if you've not had FOF training passed a SEAL adventure class or spent hours searching for the perfect bullet is BS!

    How many of you hop into your car, put on a helmet and strap in with a 6 point harness? None of you? OMG why not? You are far more likey to need that than FOF training... oh yeah... thats not nearly as much fun nor does it allow you to pump up your super gun operator/neighborhood Rambo egos.

    I would enjoy a FOF class and may one day take one, not because I think its living on the edge not to but because I enjoy guns and think I would be fun, not out of some misguided story I tell myself to justify why I'm taking it.
    It would be if we had 200mph speed limits. You make reference to a SEAL adventure class, super gun operator, and rambo. Are you trying to say something? Are you discrediting training in firearms? Or are you feeling a bit out classed by some of the formally trained members, and making attacks at there training level? Your mindset is of a loosing nature, which personally I find disturbing, especially on a Defensive forum like we are on. This sounds harsh, that is because it is. Most here want nothing but the best for others here, while you seem to want to poke fun at their advise.
    Mike1956, Bad Bob and blitzburgh like this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  7. #66
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,444
    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    It would be if we had 200mph speed limits. You make reference to a SEAL adventure class, super gun operator, and rambo. Are you trying to say something? Are you discrediting training in firearms? Or are you feeling a bit out classed by some of the formally trained members, and making attacks at there training level? Your mindset is of a loosing nature, which personally I find disturbing, especially on a Defensive forum like we are on. This sounds harsh, that is because it is. Most here want nothing but the best for others here, while you seem to want to poke fun at their advise.
    I would put it somewhere around 60%-40%, but not exactly. Wait, that was a different thread. Sorry.
    Harryball likes this.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    7,160
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I would put it somewhere around 60%-40%, but not exactly. Wait, that was a different thread. Sorry.
    You would....LOL, at least you are training...I put it at 100/100 but thats just me...your right wrong thread...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  9. #68
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,444
    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    You would....LOL, at least you are training...I put it at 100/100 but thats just me...your right wrong thread...
    I have thought about it some more, since we are here anyway. If you are applying equal pressure with each hand, would it not actually be 50/50?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  10. #69
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,435
    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    I guess I'm not a very good communicator because my point has been lost. I think FOF is fine, even great if you want to do it however, to say its necessary or you are somehow not doing you duty as a parent if you've not had FOF training passed a SEAL adventure class or spent hours searching for the perfect bullet is BS!

    How many of you hop into your car, put on a helmet and strap in with a 6 point harness? None of you? OMG why not? You are far more likey to need that than FOF training... oh yeah... thats not nearly as much fun nor does it allow you to pump up your super gun operator/neighborhood Rambo egos.

    I would enjoy a FOF class and may one day take one, not because I think its living on the edge not to but because I enjoy guns and think I would be fun, not out of some misguided story I tell myself to justify why I'm taking it.
    Hopefully one day you will take a FOF because like you said they are fun as well as informative. As to why I (guess maybe I do push) FOF is because it tells you if the training you have done really works in a gunfight. FOF using airsoft guns is the closes thing we can do to a actual gunfight without putting our lives at risk. It's the final exam of all your work in the past, will it save you. If not then you need to look at what you need to change and without putting it to the test you will never know it did or didn't work.

    There are lots of posts being made here by others who from what I found in FOF will not or at least did not work for me. They need to test there training and thoughts. In FOF you are not only the GG but the BG, if I am the BG and you as the GG threw your wallet or money to my side or behind me, after I told you to hand it to me, you would get shot---BANG your dead. So where is your taking my eyes off you giving you time to draw to shoot me before I know what is going on? Drawing on a already drawn gun no matter how you disrupt the BGs OODA loop will get you 2 guys shot. If you don't effect where his gun is pointed someway or get yourself off the X while doing the draw of your own gun.

    As to being or having "super gun operator/neighborhood Rambo egos." There is no way, there is all kinds of people who can out shoot, move and fight better than me. I just hope I'm good enough to handle all things that could come my way, hopefully I'll never even have to find out.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  11. #70
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    1,261
    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Most here want nothing but the best for others here, while you seem to want to poke fun at their advise.
    nothing could be farther from the truth... I only perked up on this topic when the op (IMO) stated its something all people that care about protecting their famies should do. I then pointed out how when it comes to caring for your family their are many things that IMO should come way before FOF training. I even noted I would enjoy it and feel it would be fun and helpful... but to say it is necessary to protect your family when looking at stats would tell anyone the chances of ever needing such training are so remote that a 6 point harness would be a much wiser purchase... as we all know a car accident is far more likely than a gun battle on the street.

    As far as out classed, if you knew me at all you would know that is not a feeling I'm really ever concerned with.

  12. #71
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Northeast Alabama
    Posts
    716
    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    How many of you hop into your car, put on a helmet and strap in with a 6 point harness? None of you? OMG why not? You are far more likey to need that than FOF training... oh yeah... thats not nearly as much fun nor does it allow you to pump up your super gun operator/neighborhood Rambo egos.
    as we all know a car accident is far more likely than a gun battle on the street.
    I think the car analogy is an incorrect one.

    Most of us get driving practice 6 or 7 times a week. I don't shoot nearly that much (I do a lot of dry practice, though).

    Equating FOF to SEAL Adventure Class (whatever that is) is merely showing you don't have a clue about the what and why of FOF.

    On the Ego trip thing, it was previously addressed. It is those who only practice what they are good at and never venture into territory where failure is possible that have the ego problems.

  13. #72
    Member Array rick21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    here
    Posts
    139
    Force on Force, fun, Rambo ego? Those typically aren't words that go together. No one comes out of a FOF class with a Rambo ego. It's usually the opposite, after 2 days of FOF most of the ego has been shot out of you. If fun is sweating inside a plastic mask and sweatshirt, having the skin knocked off your knuckles and having enough welts on your body that you look like you have the measles, then FOF is a gas. And don't forget a cup, if you do you will only forget once.

    The more FOF you do, the more you will know you need it. My first FOF class was in 2007 and every time I train it, it reinforces my belief that it is the practice available for firearms self defense.
    ScottM and Bill MO like this.

  14. #73
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    1,261
    The analogy is perfect unless you are only interested in your point of view... most of you are insinuating FOF training is something people interested in protecting themselves and their families should do, my point is a car is one of the most dangerious place we put ourselves everyday yet most of us do very little to protect ourselves beyond set belts. Compare the odds and adding saftey training or equipment is far more likely to save your life that gun training...

    That being said I have gun in my paqnts right now, I went to the range yesterday with my son, I have a paid for a 2 day Suarez International calss in Oct. I enjoy guns, though difficult I'm sure I would enjoy a FOF class... All that being said... I would NEVER tell another gun owner, parent or anyone else if they don't have FOF training they are not doing what they should to protect thier fams.

    Ok... I'm done, I've made enough of you hate me!

  15. #74
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,444
    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post

    Ok... I'm done, I've made enough of you hate me!
    You are anonymous words on a computer screen. Why would I hate you?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  16. #75
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Cleveland/Shaker Heights, Ohio - USA
    Posts
    1,320
    The car analogy, I'll tackle.

    Some of us do take "advanced" driving classes; some pursue specialty winter driving classes, others HDPE, yet others things that may tie in better with our shooting hobby, such as evasion/survival driving. Some of us do participate in autosports that have skill-sets which will transfer to better vehicle control even in street accidents/events: a low-speed autocross event may be comparable to the skills needed to steer out of an icy skid on local roadways or avoiding a child darting into the roadway; a track day may simulate highway or higher-road-speed events. Some of us do equip our vehicles with additional safety equipment - this can be something as mundane as making sure your child has the best child-seat on-market today or having a fire-extinguisher and first-aid kit ready, to details such as changing your light bulbs as they age, bleeding the brakes, and making sure you not only have the right tires for the season/travel, but that they are, weekly, at the right pressures.

    But as with our "gun life" and other ways in which we - as individuals - decide to prep ourselves, everyone's level of preparation is different.

    What one person considers obsessive or outrageous may be a wise investment for another, or even a norm for yet someone else. Stashing a pair of good boots, some emergency caloric supplies and water, a emergency blanket and a "portable female bathroom" in the car may sound like overkill for a city commuter living in warmer areas of our country, but look at: Lessons Learned: Wife stranded for 14 hours - XDTalk Forums - Your XD/XD(m) Information Source! . Suddenly, that's not so unreasonable, is it?

    Do we go around in cars with fire-suppression systems wired in or a full safety cage welded-in? I would say that not many of us do. Neither do the majority of us everyday-Joe type citizens wear body-armor throughout the course of our days. But some do purchase a new(er) vehicle every three or four years to simply keep up with the latest in safety technology, and some of us do carry guns.

    In the end, it's all about what kind of preparations you think is most viable, given your perception of the risks you face - be that on a daily basis or the most unlikely. Some prepare for what's most likely. Others prepare for the worst-case-scenario.

    Will training - Force-on-Force or otherwise - make us better prepared if that God forbid event does find us?

    I don't think that anyone would argue that it won't.

    But at the same time, I think it is also plenty evident that even with absolutely no formal training at all, there are those who come out on top, in the fight of their lives.

    I really don't think that any of us who have more training are necessarily looking down on those who do not have the same experience. Rather, I think it is that these individuals are obviously very passionate about their training, and are trying to encourage those of us who may not have experienced this kind of training to earnestly look into at least considering putting it on your training menu (because, after all, why else would you come to a Forum community like this? right? it's because you do care about your safety as well as that of your loved ones' ). The truth is that Force-on-Force is an excellent learning tool, and I think that those of us who have experienced it (and have been humbled by it - because like rick21 said above, it's *always* humbling: you're Superman 'till you're dead) are so passionate about it that, sometimes, our enthusiasm can be mistaken, particularly in a manner of communication as impersonal as the Internet, cause our words to be misread for arrogance or snobbery.

    Me?

    Like I said before, yes, I do take my training seriously, and yes, I do try to get in as much as I can - but my real-life schedule is demanding, and I must prioritize, so no, I don't have as much as I would otherwise like to have.

    But I do try my best to make sure my family is safe in their vehicles, by taking some of the steps above.

    I could do much better hardening my home.

    I could do much better prepping for bugging-in/out, too.

    I could use to touch-up on my emergency medical skills - and to also learn more of trauma, too.

    We all exist on a continuum of "readiness."

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

fof training

,
fof training program
,
mach controlled force tactical training
Click on a term to search for related topics.