Is there a good reason for FOF training? - Page 6

Is there a good reason for FOF training?

This is a discussion on Is there a good reason for FOF training? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; but to say it is necessary to protect your family when looking at stats would tell anyone the chances of ever needing such training are ...

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 93
Like Tree27Likes

Thread: Is there a good reason for FOF training?

  1. #76
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Where the deer and the antelope roam
    Posts
    3,632
    but to say it is necessary to protect your family when looking at stats would tell anyone the chances of ever needing such training are so remote that a 6 point harness would be a much wiser purchase...
    The reality is if most people would use the safety equipment installed in the car in a proper manner they would be much safer. Most of the accidents I saw or worked where people that were injured and killed while wearing seatbelts were not killed or injured because the seatbelt was inadequate, they were killed or injured because there vehicle compacted onto them and/or structurally failed.

    To say that to buy an exotic safety system for your daily driver car (that most people would not use anyway) is somehow wiser than obtaining basic self defense training with the weapon you wish to carry is a more intelligent purchase is interesting to say the least. Ever try to change the radio station in a 6 point harness? I think I would have equated some advanced drivers training vs advance FOF training, that would have been more accurate than a hardware vs software argument.

    statistics are statistically irrelevant.


  2. #77
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Northeast Alabama
    Posts
    716
    SCXDm9;
    If you are scheduled for an S.I. class, be sure to ask the instructor for his opinion for the need of FOF.

    I think you will get pretty much what you have read here.

  3. #78
    Member Array RC12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    93
    I think any class offered to civilians that could/would increase the odds is a great idea.

    Sadly, I compare some classes I've seen advertised with most of the people I've seen in the CHL classes I've been in.... A basic pistol operations course would be highly recommended, but they didn't seem the type to be interested in toting 1000 rounds of ammo to shoot over a 1 to 2 day course.

  4. #79
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    11,888
    Quote Originally Posted by RC12 View Post
    I think any class offered to civilians that could/would increase the odds is a great idea.

    Sadly, I compare some classes I've seen advertised with most of the people I've seen in the CHL classes I've been in.... A basic pistol operations course would be highly recommended, but they didn't seem the type to be interested in toting 1000 rounds of ammo to shoot over a 1 to 2 day course.
    I was surprised at how quickly the TDI classes I took filled up. I signed up in February for a three-day, 1600-round defensive handgun class being held in August, and got the second-to-last slot in a 40-seat class. I know this to be true because a couple friends of mine tried to sign up a week or so later, and were turned away. At the same time I signed up for the August class, I enrolled for an Active Shooter class being held in September, and got the last slot. Both classes had a varied mix of people there. Young to elderly, physically fit to anything but, and lots of different professions. Police, government contractors, retirees, and people there for their CHLs (TDI has a sixteen hour, 1000 round class which qualifies people for certification). One thing that really surprised me was the rarity of people taking the classes carrying concealed throughout. On the handgun I-III courses, I was the only one out of thirty people who remained concealed throoughout. In the active shooter course, about a third of the twenty-five participants were LEOs, who went with their duty rig. Of the rest, only a government contractor from Russia and me took the entire course carrying concealed.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  5. #80
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    7,728
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I have thought about it some more, since we are here anyway. If you are applying equal pressure with each hand, would it not actually be 50/50?
    Nope, 100 reaction hand, 100 weapon hand, for a total of 100 each. No pushing or pulling..At least this is the way I look at it. I try to train to what my body will do under stress, not train it to do something else.
    Last edited by Harryball; September 19th, 2012 at 10:54 AM.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  6. #81
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Cleveland/Shaker Heights, Ohio - USA
    Posts
    1,498
    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    Ever try to change the radio station in a 6 point harness?


    Forget trying to change the radio station - let's talk about how long it takes to just get buckled-up and snugged-in (and how many - forget the drivers, let's talk about passengers, here!) would really want to ride around *that* compressed into their seats?

    Or let's talk about how many would be willing to climb through a cage, on their way into the car?

    How about all this, every time you stop for coffee or through your daily routines?

    Just like you said, the safety measures we have in our everyday passenger cars are there for a reason, and they typically do quite well.

    The car analogy really is too overplayed.


    -----


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I was surprised at how quickly the TDI classes I took filled up. I signed up in February for a three-day, 1600-round defensive handgun class being held in August, and got the second-to-last slot in a 40-seat class.
    They're the only ones in the area with the facilities.

    There's plenty of good instructors throughout Ohio (and ones that come through Ohio), but I don't think any has the resources that TDI has.

    One thing that really surprised me was the rarity of people taking the classes carrying concealed throughout. On the handgun I-III courses, I was the only one out of thirty people who remained concealed throoughout. In the active shooter course, about a third of the twenty-five participants were LEOs, who went with their duty rig. Of the rest, only a government contractor from Russia and me took the entire course carrying concealed.
    Yup. What's even more disheartening are the police officers who come to the class who are unarmed..... I guess at least they're getting themselves to a class, and that counts as a good beginning.

    But at the same time, adding concealment - especially if you're playing towards absolute realism (i.e. using your true everyday gear and dressing as you would dress, every day) - adds many levels of difficulty and complexity to even basic manipulations. With safety as a primary concern, I know that a lot of shooters (myself included) tend to not go through any course with concealment prior to having run it, at least reasonably proficiently, with the gun "open."

  7. #82
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    11,888
    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post

    They're the only ones in the area with the facilities.

    There's plenty of good instructors throughout Ohio (and ones that come through Ohio), but I don't think any has the resources that TDI has.
    What's even more disheartening are the police officers who come to the class who are unarmed..... I guess at least they're getting themselves to a class, and that counts as a good beginning.
    But at the same time, adding concealment - especially if you're playing towards absolute realism (i.e. using your true everyday gear and dressing as you would dress, every day) - adds many levels of difficulty andcomplexity to even basic manipulations. With safety as a primary concern, I know that a lot of shooters (myself included) tend to not go through any course with concealment prior to having run it, at least reasonably proficiently, with the gun "open."
    I combined your response for ease.
    I have heard good things about several facilities in Ohio. I wound up loyal to TDI for several reasons which are neither here nor there, and you are right. Their facilities are awesome. Everything I have ever done with a pistol for the last several years has been from concealment. I run all the courses in my everyday attire and set-ups because that is the only way I ever carry. To be honest, I don't even own a decent open-carry rig, since I never do it and have no plans of doing so in the future. Only twice in all the exercises did my IWB set-up cause me any difficulties. The first time, we ran a fifty-some shot rapid fire/multiple target/movement exercise. A short time after I re-holstered, I unholstered quickly due to a very hot hip. The other time was during a draw/present/fire exercise which involved drawing and re-holstering about sixty times in a 10-minute period. I was fairly chafed and arm-weary well before the end of that one.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  8. #83
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Cleveland/Shaker Heights, Ohio - USA
    Posts
    1,498
    ^ Yep. I ran day 3 of Costa's HE01 from-concealment. I used a dedicated range/training copy of my carry holster, and ran it in my usual street clothing - I pretty much wear a T-shirt over jeans year-round, with no undershirt. I'm still carrying scars from that day, that's how badly it had chafed (and strangely enough, I honestly didn't feel it until I'd gotten home and was out of the shower and drying off!).

    I currently make the concession of using an UnderArmour undershirt during training, when I go IWB, simply because I don't think that getting chafed should necessarily be a part of good training.

    Costa actually encouraged me to run HE02 from-concealment, but I honestly did not feel that I would be properly honoring my line-mates, in doing so, as I knew that many of the techniques/positions would be new to me. Next year, for-sure.

  9. #84
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    11,888
    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    ^ Yep. I ran day 3 of Costa's HE01 from-concealment. I used a dedicated range/training copy of my carry holster, and ran it in my usual street clothing - I pretty much wear a T-shirt over jeans year-round, with no undershirt. I'm still carrying scars from that day, that's how badly it had chafed (and strangely enough, I honestly didn't feel it until I'd gotten home and was out of the shower and drying off!).

    I currently make the concession of using an UnderArmour undershirt during training, when I go IWB, simply because I don't think that getting chafed should necessarily be a part of good training.

    Costa actually encouraged me to run HE02 from-concealment, but I honestly did not feel that I would be properly honoring my line-mates, in doing so, as I knew that many of the techniques/positions would be new to me. Next year, for-sure.
    I,too am generally in t-shirts and jeans or cargo shorts, but I absolutely have to wear an a-shirt between skin and rig, given a skin condition I have to deal with.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  10. #85
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Cleveland/Shaker Heights, Ohio - USA
    Posts
    1,498
    ^ I hear ya. I almost gave myself a skin condition, that day!!!

  11. #86
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    7,728
    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    ^ I hear ya. I almost gave myself a skin condition, that day!!!
    But it burns so good...LOL...I always wear a undershirt to keep my rig off my skin.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  12. #87
    Sponsor
    Array DRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Near Historic Williamsburg, Virginia
    Posts
    717

    Lightbulb

    Is there a good reason for FOF training?

    Well, I used to say this:

    “The best reason I can think of for FoF training is that you get to go home afterwards, as opposed to the hospital or morgue.”

    Then I had a Marine break my leg for me during FoF training, so I guess I was only half right.
    HotGuns, TSiWRX and Bad Bob like this.
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
    Tactical Shooting Academy & Custom Shop
    www.TacticalShooting.com

  13. #88
    Member Array Crucible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    82
    FoF training IS gunfight training. And of all the training I've done, FoF has been the most eye opening....bar none:

    How quickly things happen...from zero to tunnel visioned lightspeed in a literal second. How fast you must be drawing from concealment. How fast someone with bad intent can be on you. How you're going to die if you just stand there. How I never see my sights, and how I scored good hits (while moving) anyway. (Point shooting should be on your agenda too.) How scared you should be of knives. How you better develop muscle memory to reload and clear malfunctions, fast. About how many doggone times I was hit in the firing hand by the "bad guy"(s) and how one should be versed in reverting to the off hand.

    And many other lessons, all incredibly valuable. And not a "real" shot was fired.

    C-
    DRM and rick21 like this.

  14. #89
    Sponsor
    Array DRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Near Historic Williamsburg, Virginia
    Posts
    717
    Crucible
    FoF training IS gunfight training. And of all the training I've done, FoF has been the most eye opening....bar none:

    How quickly things happen...from zero to tunnel visioned lightspeed in a literal second. How fast you must be drawing from concealment. How fast someone with bad intent can be on you. How you're going to die if you just stand there. How I never see my sights, and how I scored good hits (while moving) anyway. (Point shooting should be on your agenda too.) How scared you should be of knives. How you better develop muscle memory to reload and clear malfunctions, fast. About how many doggone times I was hit in the firing hand by the "bad guy"(s) and how one should be versed in reverting to the off hand.

    And many other lessons, all incredibly valuable. And not a "real" shot was fired.

    C-
    Well said...

    I hate getting shot in the hands with SIMS, Airsoft, too for that matter.
    "...with liberty and justice for all..."
    (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states). - D. Stanhope

    D.R. Middlebrooks - Pro Shooting Coach & Custom Gunsmith
    Tactical Shooting Academy & Custom Shop
    www.TacticalShooting.com

  15. #90
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Cleveland/Shaker Heights, Ohio - USA
    Posts
    1,498
    ^

    My CCW Shooting AAR--Now with Moar Graphic Pics on pg 29 & 30 - AR15.Com Mobile

    I found it very interesting that his right hand injuries played to what many of us see with our own and our partners' hands, in FoF.
    DRM likes this.

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

content
,

fof training

,
fof training program
,
mach controlled force tactical training
,
what is fof training
Click on a term to search for related topics.