Why did I not have to take a training course? - Page 3

Why did I not have to take a training course?

This is a discussion on Why did I not have to take a training course? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Requirements can be misused to prohibit that which the buraucrats wish to suppress. Cut funding for forms, changed forms just before the class and refuse ...

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Thread: Why did I not have to take a training course?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Requirements can be misused to prohibit that which the buraucrats wish to suppress. Cut funding for forms, changed forms just before the class and refuse the old forms, resched classes but do not inform the public, cut funding for the class and cite "lack of participation", and on, and on, and on.

    I'm in favor of such classes being required for graduation from High School, and teachers and school admin's being required to pass them before being allowed a teaching cert.


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootslxa View Post
    I didn't have to take a training course to get my license. I highly think this should be required.
    Well, state statutes vary, of course.

    But you're still responsible for being competent with firearms use and safety, as well as for knowing the laws related to weaponry and use of force. I'm with you, regarding the need for training. Though, I disagree it should be required as a precondition for permission to arm oneself.
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  3. #33
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    Here in PA there are no course or class requirements - there is no oral or written testing - there are no range time requirements - the fee is very reasonable and that is the way it should be.

    When you get you license to carry concealed the Sheriff's office gives you a brochure explaining the basic safe firearm handling rules and also printed on that brochure is a suggestion and a recommendation that the licensed individual get proper training.

    We do not have citizens NDing all over the place and laying bloody all over the streets. We also do not have insane, stupid, car and bar and restaurant restrictions and there are no Gun Buster signs all over the place and legal firearm carry here is great!

    Think about this for a minute.

    In order to obtain your license to carry a firearm...you cannot have a criminal history...you cannot have a warrant out for your arrest...you cannot have a protection from abuse order out for you...you cannot have a slew of outstanding parking tickets...you cannot have been dishonorably discharged...etc etc etc.

    In short you are ALREADY a responsible Law Abiding Adult.

    Get your License To Carry and then make your own responsible adult decisions as to how - and when - and where - and how much you will get trained.

    It's something called FREEDOM and lack of micro-managing and lack of government intrusion into our right to personal self protection.

    I know that is a RARE thing these days.

    AKA - American adults being treated as responsible American adults.

    Why would anybody actually WANT it any OTHER way?

    Please explain that to me?
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  4. #34
    Distinguished Member Array Arborigine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Here in PA there are no course or class requirements - there is no oral or written testing - there are no range time requirements - the fee is very reasonable and that is the way it should be.
    SNIP Get your License To Carry and then make your own responsible adult decisions as to how - and when - and where - and how much you will get trained.
    It's something called FREEDOM and lack of micro-managing and lack of government intrusion into our right to personal self protection.
    SNIP Why would anybody actually WANT it any OTHER way?
    Please explain that to me?
    OK. I have a CCW and am in the bank with your entire family. Robbers come in, and i decide I am going to be Joe Hero and save the day like i saw on TV by holding my gun sideways and spraying rounds all over the bank. See the problem? Mom and little Junior get shot in the crossfire while the bad guys walk away. A little training is good, and I would appreciate it if you had some before you decide to fire in the prescence of my family.
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  5. #35
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arborigine View Post
    OK. I have a CCW and am in the bank with your entire family. Robbers come in, and i decide I am going to be Joe Hero and save the day like i saw on TV by holding my gun sideways and spraying rounds all over the bank. See the problem? Mom and little Junior get shot in the crossfire while the bad guys walk away. A little training is good, and I would appreciate it if you had some before you decide to fire in the prescence of my family.
    And you were properly trained and just suck at handling stress and make bad decisions under fire.......same thing, you shoot little Johnny or get the BG's to shoot Little Johnny.

    Ever see how great the shooters are at the local range these days with folks that have been "trained".

    A CCW class means squat. It is like doing the drivers test. It give someone ONCE a snapshot in ones ability to minimally accomplish a task. Of course they went through drivers ed...big deal. They know the rules. But do drivers really follow them all the time?
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arborigine View Post
    ... i decide I am going to be Joe Hero and save the day like i saw on TV by holding my gun sideways and spraying rounds all over the bank. See the problem?
    Sure: you're going to be held responsible for your irresponsible behavior, just as you should be. The responsibility to be competent and informed doesn't go away without government-dictated training requirements.

    A little training is good, and I would appreciate it if you had some before you decide to fire in the prescence of my family.
    It's a poor assumption to suggest that folks without "a little training" are by definition irresponsible spray-and-pray types.
    pittypat21 likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #37
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    Why is it in motorcycling , scuba diving etc they can self regulate training and in the firearms community anybody can be a handgun instructor?

    Often I see a list of classes the instructor has taken but are they qualified to teach it? And if so to teach what ?

    The trainers have really dropped the ball IMO not to organize. Heck even at the gym the trainers have a certification

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    I tend to be of the opinion that the Second Amendment did not dictate any training to be able to carry a firearm, so who am I to say that it should be required...

    I think it is a good idea to get training, but I don't believe it should be required.
    Did you miss the "well-regulated militia" part of 2A? It didn't mean there were a lot of regulations, but that the militia (That's you and me) be well trained. So maybe the government should be providing traiing to everyone to fulfill 2A.
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  9. #39
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    Try calling Doug and taking one of his handgun classes

    http://www.optionsgroup.org/

    I like the Pistol Permit in Alabama, in the 20 years that I have had one I've only had to go to the Courthouse three times. To get the first one $10, When I moved to Montgomery $25, and when I moved to Elmore County $20.

    I renew by mail every year.
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  10. #40
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Did you miss the "well-regulated militia" part of 2A? It didn't mean there were a lot of regulations, but that the militia (That's you and me) be well trained. So maybe the government should be providing traiing to everyone to fulfill 2A.
    Can you show me where the 2A says anything about providing instruction and training of and with a firearm. I see where it says for a well regulated militia you are to be allowed to keep and bear firearms but not where training is mentioned that I can see.

    The way I see it you are allowed to keep and bear so "YOU" can train and practice and know all you need to be the well regulated militia if and when it is needed. You are to train and be ready at the moment notice you are needed for the militia, not standing there wanting someone else to do all the preparing for you.
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  11. #41
    Distinguished Member Array Arborigine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    A CCW class means squat. It is like doing the drivers test. It give someone ONCE a snapshot in ones ability to minimally accomplish a task. Of course they went through drivers ed...big deal. They know the rules. But do drivers really follow them all the time?
    Once every two years here, but I agree with you. The basic CCW course is very easy, but if someone is dumb enough to flunk one, perhaps they should not be trusted to be armed off of their own property. There are some really stupid people out there, and I don't want them to be armed, drive, or breed. All should require a test. I was playing "devil's advocate" there, while I may have earned my mud under fire, there are many who have no idea what to do other than what they saw in the movies, if they can refrain from a panic response. I think some basic training should be required before you walked armed among the populace, but where to set the bar is a deep topic I cannot answer.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I think that people should have to take at least 5 comprehensive and intense training courses before they are eligible to obtain a license to carry a firearm because that is about how many I've taken in my lifetime and I think people should at the very least be as well trained as I am before they are allowed to carry.
    That would make me feel a LOT better.

    What are your thoughts on that? Are you now willing to tear yours up?
    I think that you are a training : Anyone with less training than I doesn't even deserve to defend himself. It's interesting.
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  13. #43
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    Can you show me where the 2A says anything about providing instruction and training of and with a firearm. I see where it says for a well regulated militia you are to be allowed to keep and bear firearms but not where training is mentioned that I can see.
    Word definition drift. "Regulated" used to mean "smoothly functioning", and, along with other common attitudes of that era, meant men should get out and practice and train.

    You have to keep in mind the definitions of words as they were used back then, or the historical references don't sound like anything.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimalbrat View Post
    I think of a gun as a car. You have to take a test before you can drive a car. You have to know the laws and show you can drive a car safely before you can get your licenses. Does this mean all drivers are safe? No, but it does show they know what they are suppose to be doing. I think it should be the same for a gun. The test I had to take was a little of this and a little of that but it never really showed I was responsible with a firearm nor that I knew the laws well enough to be walking around with a gun.

    My big surprise is people who take the ccw test and have NEVER fired a gun. Who get their first gun after they have taken the test. Oh for heavens sakes, how about you be able to fire a gun fairly well before you even think to carry it around and maybe have to use it around other people.
    A lot of people like to make this analogy, but driving is a priviledge, and while dangerous, can not be directly compared to firearm ownership.

    I do agree though that "well regulated" in the meaning it was written indicates that we the people should be trained and efficient. That does not mean however, that the government can or should regulate this training. I would have no problem with them endorsing, supporting, encouraging or even subsidizing training. But mandating and controlling is not covered under the 2A.
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  15. #45
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    We have a range proficiency test here in Texas. It's rather silly though and appears to just be in place to satisfy the anti gun crowd.

    If all of your hits are on the large target, regardless of zone, you're pretty much a pass. I've seen people test with a full size Glock 17 and even 1911's and shoot the crotch out of the target at 9 feet. (Keep in mind the desired hit is center mass). If they're such marksmen with full sized, imagine the accuracy with something the size of an lcp, which they'll likely end up carrying in public, crowded places.

    I'm all for the second amendment and ownership, but sometimes you have to recognize and address liability.

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