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My Gunfight

8K views 77 replies 32 participants last post by  Rexster 
#1 ·
Here is some info on the gunfight we all have in our mind, but the question is do we have it right. Hope it helps someone.

"...Assumptions are awesome when they're actually right, but they sure can hurt when you're wrong......"

by Larry Correia


I've been a concealed carry instructor for five years, I hang out with a bunch of gun nuts, and I've been around self-defense buffs for most of my adult life. In that time I've seen a recurring theme, and unfortunately it can be a dangerous one. Many of us have something in common.

I call it My Gunfight. We've imagined a scene, a violent encounter, in our head. And in this scene, we take decisive action and we prevail and save the day. Many of us have a mental fabrication of what My Gunfight is going to be like.

Most people who chose to carry a gun have done this. I have myself. It isn't anything to be ashamed of. In fact, it really helps develop a proper mindset to be able to realistically assess what kind of terrible things can happen to you and start laying some groundwork about how we want to respond.

The problem comes in when we make assumptions about My Gunfight. Assumptions are awesome when they're actually right, but they sure can hurt when you're wrong.

I have had students tell me that they never practice at anything past conversational distance, because the average gunfight takes place at only seven feet. See, in Their Gunfight, the bad guy will be conveniently placed at a distance that they can actually hit stuff.

Sadly, there's no such thing as an average gunfight. The only thing they have in common is that they all suck. If you only prepare for a gunfight inside an elevator, it will be a bummer when the crazy guy starts shooting at you across the mall. I've had students tell me that if the assailant is that far away, then they wouldn't be justified in shooting. That's also a mistake. There are hundreds of reasons why you might need to shoot somebody out past conversational distance. And if you find yourself in a situation where you need to, you dang well better have practiced.

Another assumption I get from many students is that they will have plenty of time to draw their gun and get it into action. Oftentimes these folks want to carry with an empty chamber. There is a misconception that this is somehow safer, and besides in Their Gunfight, they'll have plenty of time, and both hands available, to get their pistol into action.

In real life, the bad guys may not be as compliant as the ones in Your Gunfight. In real life, the violence may occur so quickly that you do not have time to rack the slide. Or you may have one hand occupied holding the bad guy back from stabbing you in the head with a screwdriver. The point is, you won't know until it happens. Even best case scenario you've added a significant amount of time to your draw stroke (and if you've been in a fight to the death, you know that even a second is a significant amount of time), and one more chance to fumble and screw up.

During my regular class, I integrate a role-playing session. We go through several realistic scenarios with students and actors armed with rubber weapons. All of these scenarios are based on actual cases, and like real life, most of them tend to happen quickly.

Usually after going through the role-plays, nobody is tempted to carry chamber empty anymore. A fatal assumption was pointed out in Their Gunfight, and they adjust accordingly. If you're really worried about carrying with a loaded chamber, get a good, safe holster that keeps the gun secure and protects the trigger. If you still have a mental hang up, switch to a gun that has a heavier trigger or other safety devices. Anything is faster and safer than assuming you'll be in a position to rack a slide.

These are just a few examples of assumptions caused by My Gunfight. One of my personal favorite students of all time was hung up, not only on carrying chamber empty, but he also had a belief that he would "easily" be able to neutralize the bad guy by shooting them in the leg. No, I kid you not. He brought this up repeatedly during class, even after I pointed out that it could be just as fatal only slower, the same lethal force in the eyes of the law, and with the added benefit of not being nearly as effective at incapacitating an actual threat. What did I know? I was only the guy he was paying to teach him this stuff.

During the role-play, he was lucky enough to get a scenario that I use to demonstrate the principles of a Tueller drill. Without going into too many details, I'm playing the part of an obviously dangerous threat, interrupted in the act of committing a forcible felony on a third person, with the ability and opportunity to cause him serious bodily harm, and I just happen to start twenty-one feet away with a rubber knife.

I charged. He went for his gun. Not only did he fail to rack the slide and shoot me in the leg like he had talked about, he managed to draw the gun, fumble, and actually tossed it across the room. I stabbed him a few times, and as a happy bonus, picked his gun up before I fled the scene.

His Gunfight had not taken into account things like speed, adrenalin, or confusion. Last I checked, he was carrying a chamber loaded Glock, in a good holster, and practicing a bunch.

That was an extreme example, but I think all of us need to watch out for the decisions we make based upon our assumptions. Be smart, be realistic, and don't be afraid to keep an open mind. Just because My Gunfight makes sense to me, doesn't mean that the world cares one bit.
 
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#50 ·
I'm a Glock man (G31,32,33) and carry with one racked and ready to go and do the same with my other pistols too (non-Glocks).

I can understand why some might not feel comfortable doing so, but time and training should eventually warm them up to the idea of doing so.

When every second counts, the last thing I want to do is need an extra one to be ready to defend myself.

-- I don't always post from my mobile but when I do, I prefer Tapatalk.
 
#57 ·
There are actually five conditions of readiness:

Condition 0 - A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, and safety off.
Condition 1 - A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, and safety on.
Condition 2 - A round chambered, full magazine in place, and hammer down.
Condition 3 - Chamber empty, full magazine in place, and hammer down.
Condition 4 - Chamber empty, no magazine, and hammer down.
 
#59 ·
Conditions 0-4 ? Umm...That would actually be 5 conditions.....

The empty chamber carry for Israelis was more a function of multiple different kinds of pistols issued to soldiers with little or no prior pistol training.Remember, in the early days Israel did not have a robust domestic arms manufacturing capability and they took whatever they could get from whomever offered it. So if the guys I'm training have a Helwan, a P38, a Browning HP, a beretta, a tokarev, and a 1911 it would take an inordinately long amount of time to make them proficient with each....so how do we solve the problem? Carry them ALL empty chamber with the safety OFF and rack the slide to chamber a round. It was more a solution for limited training time, wide array of pistols, and in many cases least common denominator students.

Now, assuming ALL your problems are at distance , and NOT applying direct pressure to you,and both hands are available to work the slide, and you have not been injured before you are able to access your gun and you are not having to use one arm to fend off the BG while you access your gun, then you'll probably be OK with empty chamber carry....But that is a LOT of assumptions when the penalty for guessing wrong could be death or crippling injury....

Modern pistols have internal passive safeties that make them drop safe. And a straight trigger finger habituated from practice acts to keep you from accidentally firing the gun when you handle it. As such there is really no reason other than unreasonable fear to run around with a non functional gun on your hip. But we are all free to do what we want.
 
#60 ·
There are 5 Carry Conditions

Condition 4: Unloaded, no magazine in the weapon and no round in the chamber

Condition 3: Magazine in the weapon, empty chamber

Condition 2: Magazine in weapon, round in chamber, hammer decocked

Condition 1: Magazine in weapon, round in chamber, hammer cocked, safety engaged

Condition 0: Magazine in weapon, round in chamber, hammer cocked, safety is NOT engaged

These conditions do not apply to all semi-auto handguns. Some people like to append the list to add a .5 for striker fired weapons like the Glock
 
#63 ·
oakchas, this part of your post worries me,
If they come upon me, in my area... I am better than them... I am smarter. And they are not prepared for resistance. And, depending entirely on the situation, they may think they're getting cow-towed submission... They underestimate.
While what you say may all be true. Are you not falling into what the OP was and is all about. From the article in the first post, "The problem comes in when we make assumptions about My Gunfight. Assumptions are awesome when they're actually right, but they sure can hurt when you're wrong."

Your assumption before the fight ever start or appears is firmly in your mind. What if those assumptions turn out not to be true? You have placed yourself behind the 8 ball even more. While I have never been in a real life gunfight, in my FOF scenarios I try to go into them knowing there is going to be trouble but with an open mind. No pre-set thoughts as to how its going to happen or what will happen once it starts. My assumption to a fight is that once I feel threatened and the line I've set already in my mind has been reached I will destroy the BG. The hows and what fores just happen, this is where training comes into play.

This line comes from Roger Phillips but I think it covers the subject well---"SITUATIONS DICTATE STRATEGIES, STRATEGIES DICTATE TACTICS, AND TACTICS DICTATE TECHNIQUES." Train, then make it you and if needed it will be there to happen and appear.
 
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#66 ·
Everything we practice should be occassionally tested in the FOF arena. Until we test it, it's just theory.

Some people are so resistant to FOF they become angry, I've never understood that. Why would they not want to know their strength's and weaknesses?
Look at some of the other posts. They already know what they are doing, even if they havnt had the training. Sometimes people have a hard time putting there ego away, shutting their mouths and opening their ears...
 
#73 ·
Hmm, Ok My Glock is condition 1.5 and add my BUG which is a DAO revolver so thats condition 2. 1.5 + 2.0 = Keep your fingers off of my Butterfinger.
 
#75 ·
I call my chambered Glock condition zero. If I pull the trigger, bang happens.
 
#78 ·
Mercy! How did this thread degenerate into a debate about whether to carry a round in the chamber?

Back to the original topic: Indeed. There is no scripted gunfight. There is no average gunfight.

The late Paul Gomez was right about life in the modern USA; the fact a gunfight is occurring means that stats have already gone out the window. Mas Ayoob used the term "the gravest extreme" for a very good reason.

Be ready! When "it" happens, be sure to explosively shred the bad guy's script. Change HIS channel.

Forgive the randomness of my thoughts.
 
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