My Gunfight

This is a discussion on My Gunfight within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Harryball Oak I am not picking at you at all. Im just going to make a point about LEOs and Civilians as ...

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  1. #61
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Oak I am not picking at you at all. Im just going to make a point about LEOs and Civilians as it pertains to BGs. The BGs police run into are the same BGs you will run into. They are no different. The " I am not a LEO excuse " Doesnt work for me. We have to be better, because we will be behind the curve. The BG will dictate the fight.
    Yes, I agree... they are the same bad guys... I however, don't cruise in their 'hoods. I don't pull them over for traffic violations, bulbs out, or any other "fishing expedition"... to see "What have we here???" I stay out of their usual areas.

    If they come upon me, in my area... I am better than them... I am smarter. And they are not prepared for resistance. And, depending entirely on the situation, they may think they're getting cow-towed submission... They underestimate.

    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    [/B]




    ^^^^^^There is so much^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    TRUTH in that highlight .

    The police 95% of the time are going into a situation with more facts, and usually a specific individual on a call, or traffic stop, therefore their SA is at its heightened best.

    Our encounter will be the other 5% where its the two thugs you did not see in the parking lot behind the dark van, and all of a sudden you are down on the ground fighting for your life.
    You will need to get your pistol out in a nano-second, and be able to get going on the trigger, like yesterday.
    This is true, and what I am talking about... but I'm not anywhere near a dark van in the parking lot... I'm not where I can't see around me... I'm parked under the light in the lot... Mind you, I'm not in an urban area... at all... so the usual haunts don't apply to me so much...

    If I lived in my old home town, Chicago, the entire mindset would be different... and I wouldn't be there if I couldn't be armed.

    Yes, things are getting worse even out here in the corn... and I have increased my vigilance as a result... But even the criminals here are "laid back"... they talk first... they "axe" you for your money/wallet/phone... they don't club you from behind and run off with it... They think that all the folks here are sheep... and will give 'em what they want out of fear. They'd be wrong.

    But I ain't so confident as to carry condition 3, ever...

    And, if I lived in Chicago (no, I couldn't even have a handgun in Chicago, I know... So let's say it was a more lenient suburb), I'd have to carry condition 4... NO WAY JOSE!
    oneshot likes this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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  3. #62
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    I am better than them... I am smarter. And they are not prepared for resistance. And, depending entirely on the situation, they may think they're getting cow-towed submission... They underestimate.
    They aren't the only ones who 'underestimate'...
    40Bob and FLArmadillo like this.

  4. #63
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    oakchas, this part of your post worries me,
    If they come upon me, in my area... I am better than them... I am smarter. And they are not prepared for resistance. And, depending entirely on the situation, they may think they're getting cow-towed submission... They underestimate.
    While what you say may all be true. Are you not falling into what the OP was and is all about. From the article in the first post, "The problem comes in when we make assumptions about My Gunfight. Assumptions are awesome when they're actually right, but they sure can hurt when you're wrong."

    Your assumption before the fight ever start or appears is firmly in your mind. What if those assumptions turn out not to be true? You have placed yourself behind the 8 ball even more. While I have never been in a real life gunfight, in my FOF scenarios I try to go into them knowing there is going to be trouble but with an open mind. No pre-set thoughts as to how its going to happen or what will happen once it starts. My assumption to a fight is that once I feel threatened and the line I've set already in my mind has been reached I will destroy the BG. The hows and what fores just happen, this is where training comes into play.

    This line comes from Roger Phillips but I think it covers the subject well---"SITUATIONS DICTATE STRATEGIES, STRATEGIES DICTATE TACTICS, AND TACTICS DICTATE TECHNIQUES." Train, then make it you and if needed it will be there to happen and appear.
    40Bob and oneshot like this.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  5. #64
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3wggl View Post
    ...but some folks are OK with the added risk and want to be able to maximize their proficiency under C3.
    No one really teaches such a class, but perhaps someone should.

    Then the fallacy of C3 carry would become immediately apparent. Especially if there is a Force-on-Force training block.

    But reality is there is no way to maximize mediocrity.

    BTW, anyone who hasn't needs to try 'their gunfight' in an FOF setting and see how it really turns out. Or at the least, read this currently running thread:
    Is there a good reason for FOF training?

  6. #65
    Member Array rick21's Avatar
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    Everything we practice should be occassionally tested in the FOF arena. Until we test it, it's just theory.

    Some people are so resistant to FOF they become angry, I've never understood that. Why would they not want to know their strength's and weaknesses?

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick21 View Post
    Everything we practice should be occassionally tested in the FOF arena. Until we test it, it's just theory.

    Some people are so resistant to FOF they become angry, I've never understood that. Why would they not want to know their strength's and weaknesses?
    Look at some of the other posts. They already know what they are doing, even if they havnt had the training. Sometimes people have a hard time putting there ego away, shutting their mouths and opening their ears...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  8. #67
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick21 View Post
    Some people are so resistant to FOF they become angry, I've never understood that. Why would they not want to know their strength's and weaknesses?
    You can't look cool in 5.11's and photo vests with a bruised ego and airsoft welts.

  9. #68
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3wggl View Post
    There are actually five conditions of readiness:

    Condition 0 - A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, and safety off.
    Condition 1 - A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, and safety on.
    Condition 2 - A round chambered, full magazine in place, and hammer down.
    Condition 3 - Chamber empty, full magazine in place, and hammer down.
    Condition 4 - Chamber empty, no magazine, and hammer down.
    Condition 5 - Ammo in box.

  10. #69
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    Condition 5 - Ammo in box.
    C6 = Ammo in Box/Gun in Safe

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3wggl View Post
    There are actually five conditions of readiness:

    Condition 0 - A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, and safety off.
    Condition 1 - A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, and safety on.
    Condition 2 - A round chambered, full magazine in place, and hammer down.
    Condition 3 - Chamber empty, full magazine in place, and hammer down.
    Condition 4 - Chamber empty, no magazine, and hammer down.
    I have no hammers or safeties, so now what?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  12. #71
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I have no hammers or safeties, so now what?
    Condition 1.5 - A round chambered, full magazine in place, striker half cocked, and multiple safeties on.
    40Bob and 3wggl like this.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    Condition 1.5 - A round chambered, full magazine in place, striker half cocked, and multiple safeties on.
    1.5 it is, then. Thanks.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  14. #73
    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    Hmm, Ok My Glock is condition 1.5 and add my BUG which is a DAO revolver so thats condition 2. 1.5 + 2.0 = Keep your fingers off of my Butterfinger.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. Go big or stay on the porch.

  15. #74
    Member Array 3wggl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I have no hammers or safeties, so now what?
    Seems like most people with striker fired pistols and no manual safety consider it C2.

  16. #75
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    I call my chambered Glock condition zero. If I pull the trigger, bang happens.
    As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you. -- Jeff Cooper

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