Pray and Spray

This is a discussion on Pray and Spray within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; When I was carrying autos I would practice unloading a mag on target at close range, figuring that I would shoot a BG to the ...

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Thread: Pray and Spray

  1. #16
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    When I was carrying autos I would practice unloading a mag on target at close range, figuring that I would shoot a BG to the ground.


    Now that I mainly carry revolvers I fire 2-3 rapid shots up close because of my limited ammo capacity in a revolver. Distances over 30 feet I take more time to aim and fire slower.

    Wild Bill Hickock was not known for his speedy draw ( several of his opponents shot first) but known for his accuracy. He might not have shot first but he got the first hit
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    "As you appear to be making an assumption I would let you know that I am actually working on (explanation). Thank you.". Would be my initial response. After that if he still said something other than ok I'd be letting the manager know and asking when he isn't working so I could come back then.
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  4. #18
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    Better yet, explain what you are doing. Then, ask him to show you his 'technique'. If he's a great shooter, you've learned something. If not, "Spray and pray, huh?"
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  5. #19
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    You have to remember that many with little or no training (or the wrong kind) think that stacking one round on top of the other is all you need to win a fight.

  6. #20
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    We should try to make every shot a perfect shot.

    Okay, now that's out of the way. If we're talking self defense we know it's not gonna happen. With adrenaline pumping, blood pressure and heart rate blowing the roof off, bullets flying, knives cutting, and just plain old fear of dying, the idea of a perfect shot is ludicrous.

    Col Jeff Cooper related a story of a student who had been in a gunfight after training with Col Cooper. The student was attacked and he responded by emptying his pistol at his attackers and driving them off. When telling this story to Col Cooper he said he felt that he had failed because he had missed every shot. Col Cooper said he shouldn't feel that he failed, because of his response he survived the attack. I'm not implying that this student was "spraying and praying" but some would say he was.

    Is "pray and spray" valid......depends.

    As for the Fudd RO, pay him no mind and go about your business. As the saying goes "you don't know what you don't know" and obviously the RO doesn't know.

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    There have been some good responses. I appreciate all of the suggestions. At the time I think the target was out at 20 yards, and I was keeping most, if not all of my shots on the 18"x18" target. I was feeling pretty good about it at the time. The range doesn't allow "rapid fire" so it was more a series of controlled bursts.

    I think I will ask for suggestions from him next time. And some of the suggestions for better training have been good. I think I will slow it down and let the speed come. I think I will probably keep to shorter distances too until I know they are all on target.
    Walk softly ...

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    BigStick, from where I stand I think "Cruel Hand Luke" gave you very good advice and should be reread and thought about and then practiced.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    I was at the range the other day, and I have decided that I need to work on the speed and accuracy of my follow-up shots. So I am admittedly not hitting the bull's eye with every shot, that was not the goal. I was going for speed and on target.

    One of the range officers comes over, looks at my target and assumes that I am just blowing off ammo for fun. He gives me this friendly, but condescending look and says "Pray and spray huh?"

    I let it go and did not feel the need to explain or justify my training methods to some random guy at the range, even if he was the RO. I shoot a few more mags, still trying to get as quick of a follow-up shot as possible while still being on target. He comes by at least 2 more times, shakes his head and says the same thing, as if I am just some guy who saw a guy in a movie do that, and didn't know any better than to just point and pull the trigger.

    I don't really care what he thinks, but it was getting really annoying being judged for trying to get better at a skill that I know I need work on. Have any of you had similar experiences, or ideas on some good one liners to toss out if this happens again?
    I would have no objection to someone I don’t know engaging me in conversation and even making suggestions. This clearly is not that. First be sure this is not a policy issue. If it is not, just ignore him. You did the right thing. If it gets to the point where that is no longer possible, I would not get upset or excited. I would get close and speak very softly and say, “When I want to know you thoughts, I’ll ask you. Until then, #$ck off.
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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    Ya'all are much more polite than I suspect I would be. I need to follow your lead.
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  11. #25
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    In fact, being a little POed and stressed might improve the training value of the practice, since most SD situations are going to be tense. Of course, that would be a more advanced class. Early on, you want to ease into a new set of skills.
    pittypat21 and BenGoodLuck like this.
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  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    I was at the range the other day, and I have decided that I need to work on the speed and accuracy of my follow-up shots. So I am admittedly not hitting the bull's eye with every shot, that was not the goal. I was going for speed and on target.

    One of the range officers comes over, looks at my target and assumes that I am just blowing off ammo for fun. He gives me this friendly, but condescending look and says "Pray and spray huh?"

    I let it go and did not feel the need to explain or justify my training methods to some random guy at the range, even if he was the RO. I shoot a few more mags, still trying to get as quick of a follow-up shot as possible while still being on target. He comes by at least 2 more times, shakes his head and says the same thing, as if I am just some guy who saw a guy in a movie do that, and didn't know any better than to just point and pull the trigger.

    I don't really care what he thinks, but it was getting really annoying being judged for trying to get better at a skill that I know I need work on. Have any of you had similar experiences, or ideas on some good one liners to toss out if this happens again?
    Call the RO out on it, and tell him it's demeaning, inaccurate, and a really good way to lose business.
    Also, to improve your second shot ability, fire once, reacquire sight picture, and fire again. The more you do this, the faster you'll get. Concentrate more on re-acquiring your sight picture, then following up with a smooth, but expedient second trigger pull. Concentrate less on "trying to get the second shot off'"
    That's my suggestion, not having seen you shoot, or being there to offer first hand advice. Also check out some youtube videos on the topic by people like Hikock45, Nutnfancy, Rob Pincus, and the like for advice.
    BigStick likes this.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    You think that was condescending... :)

    I have been told several times, and even by people on this forum, that because I carry a relatively high-capacity firearm (and believe that more ammo is better) that I am automatically incapable of anything OTHER than "spray and pray." It ain't just that range officer that holds his (uninformed, presumptuous, ignorant) nose in the air.
    I seem to have missed this post the first time around. So let me say this – anyone who makes that statement to you is misinformed.

    Years ago, I believed anything less than a .45 was insufficient. After learning what really happens in a gunfight, I carry a high cap 9mm. I don’t want to start a 9/45 argument here, but I’ll say this – bigger is better, but more is better than bigger.
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  14. #28
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    Being a RO myself, I am able to tell the difference between someone that doesn't know what they're doing with a firearm, and someone that does. It's not about shot placement, it's about the way they handle the gun and themselves, and their (very obvious) confidence or lack thereof. If I see someone that clearly knows what they're doing, I keep my mouth shut. If there is someone that looks like they need some help, I offer, but otherwise keep my mouth shut. There are a lot of people showing up to the range every week, with varying reasons. Self defense, marksmanship, blow off steam, or just plain fun. Some people don't give a damn about hitting the target, and other's want perfect shots every time. My job as a RO is to make sure everyone stays safe while enjoying their time.

    I am personally in favor of tactical training over competitive marksmanship, but that is because my end goal is different. I want to hit the guy coming through my door; I don't go to competitions and shoot 1 inch groups at the bullseye at 25 yds. I think as long as you're hitting anything within a 12inch target you're good. A foot across and a foot high is really the best zone for a human target, imo.
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  15. #29
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    Many years ago, I was at an unmonitored public range. Two guys got out of their car, left it running, and walked over with an M16. The guy carrying it did a full-auto mag dump, said "There you go" to the guy with him, and they both quickly got back in the car and drove off.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    One reason I don't like to shoot on public ranges here..... and shoot on my own property.
    They all have a 1 second rule. One of the nearest ranges, the RO tries to turn it into a 10 second rule and jumps on everyone or makes them leave.
    We were discussing, about 20 of us going out to the range, and all alternate shooting right on the 1-2 second mark.... and see if that didn't drive him crazy. That would make it 20 second interval for the first shooter.
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