How do we stop all this mass shooting

Joshp689,

While most here might agree that we have issues in our culture with parenting, we are talking about a mentally ill individual. There is always the possibility, and even the likelihood, that no amount of good parenting is going to help when you are dealing with a deranged person.

As far as "sites like this" always talking about causes and cures relating to firearms, this is a gun forum not a parenting forum. There are other venues to talk about those issues, and just because we are members here and talking about gun issues here doesn't mean we aren't dealing with the other issues in our own way (my wife and I have been teaching parenting classes through our church on and off for 12 years).

Yes, you are right. It is a factor. Some just might prefer to keep the non gun-related issues to their proper forum and context.

As I have been trying to point out to some anti-gun liberals, Lets look at some facts from the last three major shootings in the US. The Batman movie shooting was in a "Gun Free" theater, the OR mall shooting was in a "Gun Free" mall and the last, sick, CT school shooting was, well, in a school i.e. "Gun Free" zone.
See a pattern here? They all have taken place where the wacko's know that they will not be confronted with a armed person who could put a damper on their sick plot.

Gun free zones and bans do not work!!!

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Perfect example of what can happen when intelligent, determined citizens refuse to be victims. Kudos to Ms. Castellano.

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AMEN! :yup:

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Originally Posted by Joshp689

I am by no means saying guns are bad, I own many of them. What I am saying giving guns to everyone won’t fix the issue. It will save lives when it does happen, but how many of you want to shoot and kill someone, I don’t. I think we can and would be better off stopping the problem before it happens, then when it does happen the GG are there to save lives.

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No one, except sociopath/psychopaths, ever wants to kill someone. But if it came between dropping a BG, or losing my life, or innocents being hurt/killed, I would. But it would be due to his choices. I agree, giving guns to everyone isnt the solution. But those who are willing and responsible should be able to carry a weapon to harden the soft targets. Mass shooters don't want confrontation/opposition, they want victims.

Greyskies,
How do you know the person was mentally ill? The OP never says anything about mentally ill, although I do agree you have to be sick in the head to want to kill people.

When I said “sites like this” I meant that no one (but a few I seen) realized there was more to fixing the issue other than more guns. I want gun and I want more people with guns but that doesn't solve the problem. Larry the Cable Guy say from the "prilosec OTC" commercial it the best "So if you're one of those people who get heart burn then treats, well that’s like checking on your hamburgers after there burnt.", at the end of the day people are still dead and the GG has to go to sleep knowing he has killed someone. I for one think that people should have weapons and training to end this quick when it happens, but lets work on stopping before it starts then we can use more armed people to stop the BG ASAP.

Joshp689,

Agreed.

I just wanted to recognize those here who feel that both are appropriate responses: prevention beforehand AND response during the event. You kind of painted with a pretty wide brush there in your initial statement.

Most of what you will find on "sites like these" are reactions to major media and "experts" who think that their knee-jerk gun control legislation will somehow accomplish the prevention you're talking about. In some ways it might, but not without abridging the rights of law-abiding people also. This is something that is worth more discussion and consideration before implemetation, rather than enacting it in a rushed, emotion-fueled reaction.

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Originally Posted by Joshp689

Greyskies,
How do you know the person was mentally ill? The OP never says anything about mentally ill, although I do agree you have to be sick in the head to want to kill people.

When I said “sites like this” I meant that no one (but a few I seen) realized there was more to fixing the issue other than more guns. I want gun and I want more people with guns but that doesn't solve the problem. Larry the Cable Guy say from the "prilosec OTC" commercial it the best "So if you're one of those people who get heart burn then treats, well that’s like checking on your hamburgers after there burnt.", at the end of the day people are still dead and the GG has to go to sleep knowing he has killed someone. I for one think that people should have weapons and training to end this quick when it happens, but lets work on stopping before it starts then we can use more armed people to stop the BG ASAP.

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That in bold....How do you stop something that's been with us from the start and always will be with us? Evil has been in man's heart from the beginning of time and can not and will not be removed by mere humans. Only the coming of our Savior will do that! Don't believe that..that's fine believe what you will.

That in its self is what is getting me by these days as things are changing that we have no control over. I am seeing this as far more reaching than man vs man. We all need to prepare in more ways than one.

Are you ready...if not then get prepared before it's to late....get ready to meet He who matters.

Well said GreySkies...

Bill MO,
Are you referring to religion?

Not everyone who is "evil" was born "evil". Let’s take pit-bulls( I know I’m going off in left field here) most of the population thinks pit-bull are "evil". I have raised 3 of them and they are the most loving dogs. The "evil" pit-bull you see on TV are raised that way. Just because someone kills or wants to kill doesn’t mean they were born "evil". What could have been done to keep them from turning "evil"?
GreySkies,

The prevention vs. response is like your car’s seatbelt. Safe driving (prevention) to keep you out of harm’s way but the seatbelt(response) keeps you safe when something does happen.
I get the feeling that everyone wants to buckle several seatbelts(weapons), but not worry about safe driving and other preventive measures. I hope people don’t see loosening gun laws, as “now I can drive crazy and if I get in a wreck I have my seatbelt on”

There is also the part where (I haven’t seen this discussed yet) there are several CCW in the mall. A BG comes in and starts shooting up the place so one CCW GG engages, now others join but who was the BG all they see are two people firing round in the mall at each other (firefight). Then I see this so I engage as well, but the GG sees me as a second shooter and fires at me. Now I assume he is the bad guy and shoot back. In the end the two GG end up shooting each other and not the BG. I know this is arguable but keep that in mind when more people have more guns, it’s more likely to happen.

How you ask... By not allowing our 2 amendment to vanish and start arming "EVERYBODY" !!!!

Most of these monsters are looking for notoriety of their " poor me" existence. A statement if you will of their need to be looked at or up to. Instead of glorifying them on the news and giving them the notoriety they crave, strip them naked and let them rot, hanging in the town. After they rot and fall, let the garbage truck pull up and shovel the remains into the back, while being shown on the news of the trash pickup. Always use derogatory terms when discussing the vermin. When they no longer see it as a glamorous ending things will change. It is not a gun problem, it is a mental health problem.

Layered defenses matter. Can't be stopping violent attack with what you don't have.

The basic aspects are fairly straightforward. Though, I'm sure there are more elements within each area that can be considered.

Basically, you either identify at-risk folks ahead of time, de-fang them, stop them at the gates, stop them inside the gates, or fail (and get attacked). Little different whether speaking of sleeping at home, going to school, being caught out shopping, sitting in a bank, or working at the office.

IMO ...

1. Identify the assailant before violence is attempted -- either via tips from those who know the assailant, or counseling/psychiatric interdiction, or being captured for some other crime, or having a meteor falling on the assailant's head.
   
   Ideally, strengthening our advance-warning systems will help identify a percentage of at-risk people and get them help before things blow up into full-scale violent threats against innocents.
   
   
   • Training for parents, teachers, psychiatrists, healthcare professionals, police -- to help identify at-risk behaviors early, so they can be effectively dealt with.
   • Improved communication between key parties, to streamline identification, evaluation, intervention.
   • Appropriate statutory/funding changes to streamline and support such efforts.
   • Guard against the "pre-crime" risk and the potential for abuse.
   
   
   
   
2. Take steps to eliminate the ability of the most-violent to commit violence -- via removal from society (via incarceration or execution), or elimination of weaponry in the hands of such criminals.
   
   
   • Mental health treatment
   • Violent criminal segregation -- work camps, imprisonment, execution (for the most irredeemably violent)
   • Possible elimination of weaponry from violent criminals -- though, they too are citizens. And while they're not engaging in criminal acts against others, they too have every right to be capable of defending themselves against criminal attack. Must balance the threats with the costs/benefits of erasure of rights of being armed. Existing attempts at disarming criminals have utterly failed; at best, only re-captured criminals get disarmed, and they re-arm the moment they're released.
   
   
   
   
3. Make it difficult/impossible to reach the intended victim(s) -- via hardening a facility's doors/windows, procedures and tactics.
   
   It's important to do everything we can to provide practical and effective strengthening of doors, windows, entry paths, procedures, tactics and training, such that a violent assailant cannot reach the "sensitive" targets (people in the bedrooms, classrooms, offices; or, the gold/money in the safe).
   
   
   • Door strengthening -- stronger, thicker doors, frames, locking mechanisms.
   • Window strengthening -- stronger, wired glass panes, stronger frames, locking mechanisms.
   • Alarms, monitoring.
   • Layout/design improvements -- Better-designed buildings can help segregate "public" access areas from "protected" areas containing at-risk staff or stuff. Only suitable for new structures, costly revamp of older/existing structures.
   • Staffing -- a "castle's walls" aren't much good unless they're manned by competent and effective people.
   • Training, tactics -- strong training programs can help people understand how to effectively react in emergency situations.
   • Funding -- each of these steps requires the funds to achieve them. Many are relatively low-cost, but many can be costly in terms of funds, time.
   
   
   
   
4. Stop an assailant at the moment of violence -- requires weaponry, skills and tactics in combination sufficient to survive the attack.
   
   It's critical to have the capability of making a last stand, via a combination of weaponry, skills and tactics sufficient to stop violent attack. Required in the event that the earlier steps fail to stop the assailant.
   
   Absolutely critical, if a person is out and about, outside of some facility/structure that can otherwise be hardened or protected beyond the person's need to be capable of his/her own defense. Nobody else is likely to protect a person here, given that armed/capable helpers are likely to be elsewhere on the instant of a violent attack.
   
   
   • Pepper sprays
   • Batons
   • Firearms
   • Skills -- defensive skills, including hand-to-hand, using weaponry.
   • Tactics -- must be trained how to effectively manage/alter situations to turn the tables on an assailant.
   • Quick-reaction teams -- key members of staff, students, responders can train to effectively work together in such situations, to handle specific tasks and take advantage of situation dynamics.
   • Time, funds -- requires the staff, time and funding to acquire such weaponry, skills. Not all staff will be suitable to all forms of skills/weaponry.
   
   

I honestly believe that guns serve as a deterrent. I can't remember the last time I heard of a mass shooting at a gun show.

Ban paper armor! Ban gun free zones!

How do we stop it? Shoot back.

The Op says to stop it BEFORE, he wants to PREVENT it. I think guns are great for when it happens. But how does shooting back stop a crime BEFORE it happens. We carry weapons for when SHTF and the preventive system fails.