Carrying in Condition 3

Carrying in Condition 3

This is a discussion on Carrying in Condition 3 within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Recently I was reading up on firearms-related info as it pertains to the country of Israel, and I noticed that they mandate that all semi-automatic ...

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Thread: Carrying in Condition 3

  1. #1
    Member Array Risque007's Avatar
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    Carrying in Condition 3

    Recently I was reading up on firearms-related info as it pertains to the country of Israel, and I noticed that they mandate that all semi-automatic handguns be carried in Condition Three, that is, a loaded clip and an empty chamber. I also noticed in the movie The Fugitive, that Tommy Lee Jones' U.S. Marshall character carried his glock in condition three. Is this a good idea? How many of you carry in Condition Three as opposed to Condition One?

    Another important question -- Say that, for some reason, you did have to carry condition three. What is the fastest way to pull and ready your firearm?
    A man without a blackthorn stick is a man without an expedient. - Irish Proverb

    Why so SERIOUS?


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    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    Would suggest that you never,ever, carry a weapon in such a condition that it takes two hands to bring it into the fight.

    This sir,is CCW 101. -------

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    Harder to use in a CQB fight. Lots of assaults start with a shove. Also , reationary curve slows ya enough, why add to it more.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Member Array Leadslinger's Avatar
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    If I remember correctly, Tommy Lee Jones carried his "Backup"

    Glock in condition 3.

    BTW I see absolutely no benefits from this type of carry.
    A LTTLE TRAINING IS A DANGEROUS THING ....

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    Member Array riversdaddy's Avatar
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    Carrying in C3 simply takes tools out of your self defense toolbox. It is not safer in my opinion for this simple reason; you eliminate the VERY small risk of an AD/ND in the holster in favor of the very real risk of being seperated from your own deadly weapon because you were fumbling around with it trying to load a round in front of a criminal. Can training overcome some of the "fumbling"? Sure, but you can't accurately simulate having your arm hanging at your side becasue it's been hit by buckshot, or having someone in close quarters with a knife when time is your biggest enemy. Good handguns are designed to be carried with a round in the pipe--I would humbly suggest using the tool properly in this regard. Preparing for the fight should be accomplished before the fight arrives, and I believe loading the gun is preperation. Lots of people swear by condition 3, but I contend that if they encounter someone who knows what they are doing, they're putting themselves at a distinct disadvantage.

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    VIP Member Array frankmako's Avatar
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    it you are going to carry a gun in c3, then the leave the gun at home and carry a rock. with the rock you will at least hit the bg in the face faster than you trying to load your gun when "it hits the fan". as for tv,,, tv shows you how not to do it.

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    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    I have seen the Israelies do this first hand. The draw and the "rack" is an all in one,very fluid motion. BUT(!) this still has to be accomplished with both hands/arms.

    Back then it was explained to me why some of them trained in this manner. I cannot remember the reasons at this later date.

    Not all members of all branches of their armed forces train in this manner IIRC. -------

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSSZ View Post
    Would suggest that you never,ever, carry a weapon in such a condition that it takes two hands to bring it into the fight.
    While I'm not going to carry in condition three, and wouldn't advocate anyone else doing so, I have to point out that you do NOT need two hands to go from condition 3 to condition zero. There are several methods for working the slide with one hand (hook your rear sight over your belt, etc.). I think these are worthwhile to know (and perhaps practice occasionally) even for people who carry condition one, since they are part of one-handed clearance drills.

    Quote Originally Posted by RSSZ View Post
    Back then it was explained to me why some of them trained in this manner. I cannot remember the reasons at this later date.
    The explanation that I heard (and this is merely something I read on the net somewhere so take it for what little it's worth) is that the Israelis started doing this during the War of Independence (the 1948 war) because so many of their smallarms were unreliable WWII surplus stuff on which they didn't trust the manual safeties.

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    VIP Member Array swiftyjuan's Avatar
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    If you don't want to carry in condition 1, use a revolver; wait, that;s condition 1 too - never mind. The Israelis are first class soldiers, but carrying condition 3 is an invitation to get killed. Work on getting comfortable with a condition 1 carry; if you don't feel comfortable, a gun on your person is better than none at all, but you and your loved ones are the ones who might suffer if it keeps you from reacting in time. My 2 cents.
    John
    Assault is a behavior, not a device.

    "Don't never take no shortcuts." Patty Reed, Donner Party

    Lifetime NRA member

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    why would you want to carry in c3?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle
    The explanation that I heard (and this is merely something I read on the net somewhere so take it for what little it's worth) is that the Israelis started doing this during the War of Independence (the 1948 war) because so many of their smallarms were unreliable WWII surplus stuff on which they didn't trust the manual safeties.
    That, and IIRC, since they were using a variety of weapons (whatever they could get a hold of), carrying in Condition 3 gave them a manual of arms that would work with any semi-auto. I can see where this would have made sense in their situation at that time, I don't understand why they continue to use this method today.

    Quote Originally Posted by frankmako View Post
    it you are going to carry a gun in c3, then the leave the gun at home and carry a rock. with the rock you will at least hit the bg in the face faster than you trying to load your gun when "it hits the fan". as for tv,,, tv shows you how not to do it.
    Nice!

    AFAIC, Condition 3 is a stupid idea, you're just making things more difficult for yourself.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

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    Member Array mexican_ninja's Avatar
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    Reminds me of Munich (the movie) when they make their first assination of the people who planned the Munich terrorist attack. They first verified that they had the right guy, then they both drawed their weapons, pulled the slide, and aimed. But, one of them had trouble getting his gun out of the pants. So imagine in real life. What if you had trouble drawing your gun? Great, now you just added ANOTHER step to defending yourself with a C3 gun.

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    New Member Array Leo8's Avatar
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    risque007,
    Condition 1 vs condition 3 is a personal choice.
    What makes you comfortable?
    Safety is a serious consideration both ways.
    I have flipped safety off on my 1911 by body movements twisting and reaching to get items out of back seat of my vehicle...also have ejected magazine the same way.
    You only have to answer to yourself.
    Leo8
    "If you won't defend your rights, don't complain when you lose them!"
    "If you think gun ownership is not political, you aren't thinking!"

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo8 View Post
    I have flipped safety off on my 1911 by body movements twisting and reaching to get items out of back seat of my vehicle...also have ejected magazine the same way.
    What kind of holster were you using that leaves the safety exposed that it can get flipped off like that? Or are we talking about a 1911 with ambidextrous safety?

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    Member Array gman10111951's Avatar
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    Never, ever, carry a pistol that isn't ready to shoot once you draw and have a sight picture!

    Remember, the REAL safety on any firearm is between your ears!
    Texas DPS CHL Instructor

    Is there such a thing as having too many Glocks???

    "You may all go to Hell; And I will go to Texas!" Davy Crockett-1836

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