Some shooting advice....advice and constructive criticism welcome

Some shooting advice....advice and constructive criticism welcome

This is a discussion on Some shooting advice....advice and constructive criticism welcome within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Went shooting 2 new guns today....M&P Shield and M&P fullsize, both 40cal So yeah, I'm opening myself up to much criticism that may bruise my ...

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Thread: Some shooting advice....advice and constructive criticism welcome

  1. #1
    Member Array RookWV's Avatar
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    Some shooting advice....advice and constructive criticism welcome

    Went shooting 2 new guns today....M&P Shield and M&P fullsize, both 40cal

    So yeah, I'm opening myself up to much criticism that may bruise my ego a bit but if it makes me better and safer I can swallow my pride to learn!

    First it was like shooting in a meat locker and I wanted to be more diligent but I just couldn't take it much longer.

    My target...The Shield was the left side targets and I shot them middle/bottom/top. Things seem to get worse the longer I was there....not sure if it was the cold and not being able to concentrate well and the shivers or I just suck (I'm not a good shot in general, yet). Hits seem to indicate jerking/trigger slap or tightening my fingers.
    GOPR0958.JPG

    I didn't think I was slapping the trigger as I tried to take up the slack and wait for the break. Maybe some flinch due to anticipation in the later shooting?

    I will say the Shield has a WAY better feeling trigger. Way better.

    Other than going when it's warmer, got any advice?

    First the Shield and then the full size M&P.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    From the angle the camera was at it was sort of hard to see everything. The one thing I did notice was that your upper body was rocking back a lil worse as the video went on. Since the pistol doesnt have that much kick to move your whole upper body and this is a guess I think you are standing with you feet simply apart not your strong side back a little bit, lean a tad forward into the gun and maybe flinching just a tad as the shoot wore on.

    Thats all a guess since couldnt see that much except your rocking upper body which shouldnt be.
    40 is great caliber though some complain of the recoil its not that much. I own a 40 have my sons 40 and shoot both.
    Stay after it and you can in time put rounds down range as fast as you can with a 9mm and with as good a shot placement. Just takes some practice getting in sync with the rythem of the 40 cal recoil and muzzle flip of your particular pistol. Good luck
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Admit, didn't watch the video .... but looking at the targets.... the top left one and the middle right one, are typically a result of jerking the trigger ..... low and left from a right handed shooter.

    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...electedIndex=1

    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...lectedIndex=12
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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Eagleks if you have time watch the video I thought so too but at least from the camera angle he doesnt appear to be jerking the trigger. But his upper body is sort of weaving like a reed in a gentle wind just after the shot the rocking back into position.
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

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    Member Array RookWV's Avatar
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    Good info guys! There's a large chance I wasn't standing as solid as I should. I recall being more square footed than normal, I usually have a Weaver style stance.

    I'm wondering if the squared up stance and the "push-pull" grip is partly the cause of the low left hits?

    I'll get a better camera angle the next time......when it's warmer!

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    Yup..............trigger squeeze.............concentrate on the front sight and gently press the trigger with the pad of your index finger looking for the surprise shot.

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    Member Array Kutz's Avatar
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    Use the first finger joint.

  8. #8
    AOK
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    "Maybe some flinch due to anticipation in the later shooting?"

    Very likely if you are using your sights properly.

    Get some snap caps if you don't have any and look up "Ball and Dummy Drill". Easy drill and it can be done by yourself on ANY range. The flinch problem WILL go away if you spend some time on this drill.

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    I'll add two things; if you can, try 9mm and see if your groups tighten up and keep your left index finger down off the trigger guard.
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  10. #10
    AOK
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    Just an FYI, a great DVD you can purchase is "Shooting Missology" by James Yeager. It gives you a some great drills and educates you on a lot of myths on what causes missed shots that fly around the internet and gun ranges.

  11. #11
    JMB
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    Groups don't look too bad, just low and slightly left. Not unusual for a right handed shooter.

    Do some dry fire - with the gun unloaded, practice:

    Sight Alignment - Front sight centered in the rear sight notch, level across the top. This is more important that perfect sight picture because where the front sight is when the gun fires is where the bullet goes.

    Sight Picture -Place the sight alignment over the target center and focus on the front sight so it appears clear and the target beyond is slightly blurry. It is not possible to keep the sight picture perfectly centered on the bullseye, there will always be some movement. It is important to know that this has very minimal effect on hitting the bullseye so don't stress over it and jerk the trigger when it looks momentarily perfect. This is a major cause of jerking the trigger which really disturbs sight alignment and picture, thus causing you shots to go low.

    Trigger Press - While concentrating on maintaining sight alignment, place the middle of the pad of your trigger finger on the trigger and smoothly press to the rear while watching the front sight for movement within the rear sight notch...you don't want this to happen. If it does move, you need to adjust the amount of finger you have on the the trigger so you have more or less. The objective is to move the trigger to the rear without applying pressure to the right or left.

    Those are the basics but you could also be anticipating the recoil. If you can complete the above exercise while consistently keeping perfect sight alignment, it is best to do some ball and dummy training. Get some snap caps or dummy rounds and load one or two randomly in the magazine with live ammo. A shooting partner is useful here! Then fire your shots at the target. If you are anticipating recoil by pushing into the gun when you think it is going to fire, you will see the muzzle dip when you press the trigger on the dummy rounds. Recoil is just part of shooting and cannot be countered by pushing against it at the moment of firing. A solid aggressive stance and proper grip are the answer... learn to accept it and you will shoot much better.

    These techniques are not new, they have been used to train shooters for many years...but they work!

    Good luck
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    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
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    I dont know your shooting experience so I dont mean to insult. One of the best things you could is take a lesson or two from a personal firearms instructor. They can tell you what you are doing wrong, and teach you to do it right. It is easier to learn to do it right than it is to unlearn a firmly engrained bad habit. Aside from that, dont be so hard on yourself. Your groupings are consistent, and any of your hits would have given a bad guy a very bad day. For defensive purposes, combat accuracy is where its at. Splitting ten rings is fun, but you are well on your way to being an accurate shooter to be reckoned with if you practice. Keep up the good work !
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMB View Post
    Groups don't look too bad, just low and slightly left. Not unusual for a right handed shooter.

    Do some dry fire - with the gun unloaded, practice:

    Sight Alignment - Front sight centered in the rear sight notch, level across the top. This is more important that perfect sight picture because where the front sight is when the gun fires is where the bullet goes.

    Sight Picture -Place the sight alignment over the target center and focus on the front sight so it appears clear and the target beyond is slightly blurry. It is not possible to keep the sight picture perfectly centered on the bullseye, there will always be some movement. It is important to know that this has very minimal effect on hitting the bullseye so don't stress over it and jerk the trigger when it looks momentarily perfect. This is a major cause of jerking the trigger which really disturbs sight alignment and picture, thus causing you shots to go low.

    Trigger Press - While concentrating on maintaining sight alignment, place the middle of the pad of your trigger finger on the trigger and smoothly press to the rear while watching the front sight for movement within the rear sight notch...you don't want this to happen. If it does move, you need to adjust the amount of finger you have on the the trigger so you have more or less. The objective is to move the trigger to the rear without applying pressure to the right or left.

    Those are the basics but you could also be anticipating the recoil. If you can complete the above exercise while consistently keeping perfect sight alignment, it is best to do some ball and dummy training. Get some snap caps or dummy rounds and load one or two randomly in the magazine with live ammo. A shooting partner is useful here! The fire your shots at the target. If you are anticipating recoil by pushing into the gun when you think it is going to fire, you will see the muzzle dip when you press the trigger on the dummy rounds. Recoil is just part of shooting and cannot be countered by pushing against it at the moment of firing. A solid aggressive stance and proper grip are the answer... learn to accept it and you will shoot much better.

    These techniques are not new, they have been used to train shooters for many years...but they work!

    Good luck
    This here !
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  14. #14
    Member Array chasbo00's Avatar
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    I won't attempt to diagnose your shooting via the internet and a short video. Even if I could, I would still recommend the following: Get some one-on-one training from someone who can shoot really well and knows how to teach the fundamentals well and can diagnose a shooter's flaws. If you can, find a personal coach who has some action pistol competition shooting background. Most of these folks will be happy to work with you for free. Ask the folks at the indoor range if they can recommend someone who fits this bill.
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  15. #15
    Member Array RookWV's Avatar
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    Excellent advice from all!!

    I think I'm going to talk to some state troopers I know and see if they can help me as well (mom is a SP dispatcher so I have an inside track).

    I've looked for some local training but it doesn't seem that there many options in that arena. No nearby IDPA unfortunately.

    Again, thanks to all!!

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