MAG/40 Class appropriate?

This is a discussion on MAG/40 Class appropriate? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have owned guns, including handguns, for a long time and have accurate target shooting down. However, I have only recently obtained a concealed carry ...

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Thread: MAG/40 Class appropriate?

  1. #1
    Member Array elfman's Avatar
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    MAG/40 Class appropriate?

    I have owned guns, including handguns, for a long time and have accurate target shooting down. However, I have only recently obtained a concealed carry license and I am interested in training for self defense use of a conceal carry weapon.

    The MAG/40 Class offered by the Massad Ayoob group seems to me like it would be an excellent course. However, I am concerned about this course having such a emphasis on training for law enforcement personnel and/or having law enforcement or other similar people as class members that I would be out of place as a civilian new to defensive handgun use that just wants to train for practical situations that are likely to arise in my own self defense.

    So does anyone who has taken this course have any comments on whether or not my concerns might have any merit? I would especially interested in hearing from older (45+) individuals with no law enforcement or military background. This is an expensive course and for me would also require traveling a long distance to attend.

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    You will be fine. Remember you are paying for the privilege. You are not paying to show them how good you shoot. It is well worth the time and money being spent...Keep an open mind and remember not make absolutes while there...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    I haven't taken a class like that, but someone suggested to me to give IDPA a try. Maybe that's worth a look too. Not very expensive to try that out, at least.
    "Freedom and discipline have come to be regarded as mutually exclusive, when in fact freedom is not at all the opposite, but the final reward of discipline" - Elisabeth Elliot

    "While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly" 1Thess 5:3

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    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    I HAVE NOT taken Mas's class. So I cannot answer your question based on experience.
    I have, however, studied Mas's publishings for 20+ yrs, and I see NO downside to attending this class. This class, or a combination of a couple of his classes are on my really short list.
    I'd encourage you to take it, and if you have any doubts as to your abilities / quals for this class, send an email detailing your concerns. I'll bet you get a very pleasant and welcoming response.

    dan

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    Senior Member Array threefeathers's Avatar
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    Ihis is the perfect course for a CCW holder. I sponsor Mas in S/AZ and the majority of my students are CCW holders from around the nation. You will be part of a very tight group and you will make friends for life who you can depend on. The trials I have assisted Mas with were civilian CCW holders. They won the fights and the legal process after.
    gasmitty likes this.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    elfman, this course is extremely valuable, IMO. BTDT, myself. Ditto on the above comments. It's focused, it's heavy on the legal/ramifications aspects. There's a shoot / no-shoot component. There's critique of ideas, Q&A. There's a goodly portion that's on the range, but that really takes a back seat to the heavy class time in discussion with Ayoob and his supporting instructors/speakers. IMO, it's the perfect course for a citizen carrier who's interested in evaluating the very real pros/cons of being armed with deadly weapons.

    From the course, you'll come away with a binder full of the class presentation, your notes, as well as a certificate of completion.

    Come prepared with your various carry guns, carry holsters, carry garments. You'll shoot every bit of the recommended rounds. Come prepared for 4 days away from home, as though it were a shooting/camping type trip, with appropriate clothing for all weather, hat, decent boots/gloves/kneepads, ear protection, water/snacks, a fold-up chair, sunscreen, plenty of stuff to write with/on ...

    Suggestion, if you haven't done so already: pick up a copy of the book In The Gravest Extreme and the book StressFire, by Ayoob. They're both good supporting materials for the course.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    I have trained with him. I recommend it.

    If you go into it with an open mind and a critical eye you will get A LOT out of it. But remember not EVERY case goes the same. Not every jurisdiction has the same laws or even societal norms or social mores. Not EVERY civilian shooter will get raked over the coals by the local DA and get sued by the family of the guy he shot. Mas is preparing you for WORST CASE situations. It should not scare you out of ever carrying as I have heard some people say. What it should do is make you more aware of the POSSIBLE consequences of doing things badly.
    Randy Harris
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    TRAIN with me....http://www.suarezinternationalstore....px?find=harris

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruel Hand Luke View Post
    I have trained with him. I recommend it.

    If you go into it with an open mind and a critical eye you will get A LOT out of it. But remember not EVERY case goes the same. Not every jurisdiction has the same laws or even societal norms or social mores. Not EVERY civilian shooter will get raked over the coals by the local DA and get sued by the family of the guy he shot. Mas is preparing you for WORST CASE situations. It should not scare you out of ever carrying as I have heard some people say. What it should do is make you more aware of the POSSIBLE consequences of doing things badly.


    As you point out, Mas doesn't "scare" folks about carrying. He presents the realities of carrying and use-of-force from the perspective of police and attorneys, and from the perspective of real court cases. He presents a fairly high standard that one should be able to generally rely upon for a guide to defensive, use-of-force behavior, though knowing your own state's applicable laws is crucial. He presents what might very well occur, during the course of a deadly force scenario, and what might very well occur in the aftermath. He helps prepare a person for dealing with that, in advance of having to deal with that. And that's nothing but a very, very good thing.

    Highly recommended, as a first step toward a broader and deeper understanding.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
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    I've taken it twice, the class will provide you with more legal understanding than you can get in any other class! The range time is to give your brain a time out!


    In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress. -- John Adams

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    I sat in a class at the Polite Society Tactical Conference in Memphis this past March and had the pleasure of a 1 on 1 with Mas during one of the breaks. His training sessions were full to the brim and with everyone taking notes. I have read most of his writings and thanked him for the teachings over the years and he said "You are very kind". He is first class and up front in his information and training. If you get a chance to train with him take the opportunity to do so.
    Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144
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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraySkies View Post
    I haven't taken a class like that, but someone suggested to me to give IDPA a try. Maybe that's worth a look too. Not very expensive to try that out, at least.
    IDPA is not a course of firearms instruction. It is competative shooting, based around people carrying concealed weapons. It is essentially a venue to help you maximize, and improve on the instruction you have receieved elsewhere. Come to IDPA with bad habits, and no understanding of concealed carry dynamics and you're not going to have a particularly good experience.

    Yes, IDPA is a friendly venue and you'll more than likely be able to get advice and pick up lots of pointers as people are eager to help out and share. But it is not a substitute for professional instruction.

    The MAG 40 is probably one of the best courses you can take as an armed citizen. Especially if you are fairly new to ccw. You should have a solid grasp of safe gun handling prior to attending, but a course like that will be one of the most important gun training you could ever attend.

    Go for it!
    JD likes this.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Phaedrus's Avatar
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    This is why I love DC! I'm bookmarking Mas' site and hopefully will be able to train there down the road!
    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    “You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” - Naguib Mahfouz

  14. #13
    Member Array elfman's Avatar
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    Thanks for the great feedback everyone. I did just recently read The Gun Digest® Book Of Concealed Carry by Massad Ayoob an got a lot out of that and In The Gravest Extreme is on my TBR list. Looks like a road trip to one of the locations that are holding this course this summer is in my future. :

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