This is a discussion on Avoidance within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We train to fight. To shoot. To stop. And if we have to, to kill. But I think all folks who carry know that doing ...
Post By KoriBustard
Post By NH_Esau
Post By Robby1276
April 23rd, 2013 09:51 PM
We train to fight. To shoot. To stop. And if we have to, to kill. But I think all folks who carry know that doing that without exercising every available option beforehand can lead to jail time and civil suits. Every CCW class teaches restraint, avoidance, and quelling a volatile situation long before it escalates to the use of deadly force. "Discretion is the better part of valor".
So I thought I'd start a thread that allows people to share their "almost" situations. What happened, what did you do to disarm or avoid danger, or maybe you drew but held your fire to deter a bad situation. It may give others who have never experienced a bad situation some good ideas on how to come out on top without ever having to fire a single shot.
I am not a pacifist and I will shoot a person or persons with the intent and ability of inflicting great bodily harm or death to me or mine. But it will always be a last resort.
Share your stories!
April 23rd, 2013 09:58 PM
I've only had one "high alert" situation. Just a few days after the Aurora, CO shooting in the theater, I went to a movie theater with my wife and some friends. Just a few minutes into the movie, a rather large man a few rows in front of me seemed very agitated. He caught my attention so I watch him for a few minutes. He then got out of his seat and walked up the aisle. I thought he may be leaving the viewing area but instead he went to the very back row and just stood there, still seeming agitated. I excused myself from my wife and friends and walked out of the viewing area, past the guy, but immediately turned around and stood in the outer area where I could see him. I then observed him stretching his arms and back and after watching him for a while realized that he probably was just having back issues (something I can sympathize with). So I just observed him until I determined he was no threat and returned to my seat. In my short time of CCW, that was the only time I went to "orange."
Certified NRA RSO
EDC: M&P 9c
Favorite Firearm: 1968 SW .357 Revolver
April 23rd, 2013 10:17 PM
I had mentioned on another post,in 10 yrs.of carrying,only once,had i thought of pulling mine.I was in a walgreens one day and i heard a couple of people yell.A man had a knife,and was swinging it at clerk behind the counter.Another man,knocked it out of his hand.The man was bipolar,and off his meds.Had he came at me,i have no doubt,i would have shot him.I'm not going,to give anyone a chance,to take my gun,if i can help it.I'm no expert by any means,but,i do know,you better have a good idea,of the situation,if you pull a gun and use it.
April 24th, 2013 07:23 AM
Your story was one of the reasons I started this thread. Good job with restraint, sir.
Originally Posted by Mandpgrl
April 24th, 2013 08:05 AM
I'm not allowed to post my instance! Forum rules prohibit it.
April 24th, 2013 08:30 AM
Almost all of us who carry have probably had a situation in which we used discretion that, whether we realized it or not, prevented that situation from escalating to a point where we needed to employ deadly force.
- Avoidance: Deciding to cross the street rather than walk past a certain individual or group, or maybe just deciding that right after you got off shift at 12am wasn't the best time to take a run on that trail that goes under the bridge.
- Deterrence: Posture and presence. The mangy coyote is looking for the weak and sick to attack. Be the one that tells him he's going to get the worst of the encounter.
- De-escalation: Don't give a scumbag a reason to escalate. Some situations need aggressive action, and some need assertive action that might look passive or submissive, but are really a chance to de-escalate while preparing for the worst - maybe complying with a robber because it's not worth anyone dying over, or maybe pretending to comply while setting up to employ. Open hands in front of your chin is both a great "Hey, sorry for whatever I did... I don't want any trouble here" posture and a preparatory position.
- Assertiveness: Your voice, face, and body language can have a lot of force. Recently, I shut down a confrontation with a couple punks just by staring them down as we continued to move to a better spot. They were just drunk and looking for trouble. I didn't say anything - just looked them in the eyes as we got separation. Another option is the "I've been wondering what it would feel like to kill, peel, and eat you" look combined with command voice, mixed with a little Jack Nicholson from The Shining. This can be very effective, especially if you're as ugly as me.
- Non-lethal force: I always carry OC spray. Given the opportunity, I would much rather a stupid punk be writhing on the ground scratching at their eyes while we run away then him to be dead and me needing a lawyer. I've never used it in civilian life except on a dog, and as much as that dog probably deserved to die, I didn't need the hassle.
April 24th, 2013 09:03 AM
I was at Walmart looking for a parking spot. A man and a woman were walking 15-20 feet in front of my car. I was keeping my distance while they wandered around looking for their car. The man suddenly turned and started yelling and approached me. He was yelling that I almost ran over them. I was a bit surprised since I am very careful not to get too close to others with my car. He came up to the car shaking his fist and cursing. I had a Bersa 45 with me at the time. I kept my hands on the steering wheel, said nothing and let him rage. After a few moments of ranting at me, I think he decided he won and left. One of my weaknesses is my inability not to speak up for myself. I realzed that this situation was only going to end badly for me not matter what I did beyond being quiet. I kept hearing the voices of every instructor I've ever had, whether it was firearms or self defense fighting..."run if you can". I guess by not escalating the situation I was "running". This was several months ago and it still makes me feel uneasy to think about it. You never know when some nut is going to do something.
April 24th, 2013 09:14 AM
Not an incident but a state of alert that I try to maintain: maintain the difference between looking for a fight and being ready to fight.
I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
1 Thess. 5:16-18
April 24th, 2013 09:19 AM
Once at Autozone, I had a guy walk up to me and try to "sell me cologne." He was very pushy, it was in a very shady part of town, he got all up in my business and most of all: he was trying to sell me "cologne" outside of an Autozone. I repeatedly told him I wasn't interested while backing towards my Jeep. He finally backed off when I started to undo the velcro on the pocket holding my pepper spray and told him one last time, very firmly, to back off.
That's the only time I avoided a legitimately threatening situation. I have had a couple others which either turned out to be innocuous or my mere presence stopped whatever might have happened. I'll never know. Neither involved drawing a firearm.
I'm a firm believer in, and have officially added to my personal defense philosophy, the idea that if escape or avoidance is an option, it is often the best one.
This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.
April 24th, 2013 09:28 AM
1) Wife and I being stalked by couple of thug bully types about to mug or harass us. The assertive look I had and gun in my coat pocket sent some kind of secret message to the guy. I could see the decision actually happen in his eyes when I stared him down. Him and his buddy changed directions to engage us in a dark parking lot, I knew what was about to happen but I stopped it with nothing more than body language and confidence I was about to shoot his ass off.
2) Many times I have walked in Atlanta back to my car at night. Many, not all, aggressive bums there also dabble in mugging or crimes. Especially car break ins. They will approach you from all the way across a street. I stop them with my voice before they cross. They switch from a nice voice to cursing and spitting. I do not give a crap, don't invade my space arse hole!!
3. Open car door one night and a late teen young man appears behind me at the driver front fender, has me in a bad position and my hand is on my 45 and I almost drew because of the sudden close invasion. He asked for money but he was NOT poor and I think he was up to something with his buddy in a car blocking me from backing out. Honestly I think they were so young they chickened out. He had just watched me take my change in the store. I told him I have NOTHING FOR YOU firmly and again with some kind of look on my face he read accurately.
4. At a BBQ party one time armed CC and a guy began getting angry with me for no reason. I was one of the only white guys there... etc. He just got worse. I left and did not bring my musical PA equipment with me. I came back the next day and it was all gone. Luckily one of the leader type people in those families forcefully GOT my stuff back. My life and avoiding having to shoot some idiot was worth more than my expensive Mackie and JBL sound gear.
My main strategy? Avoid the city, avoid city at night. Avoid bad areas, avoid places I can't carry.
April 24th, 2013 10:15 AM
I like these threads it gives the mind some food for thought as it were.